VM modifications - Joined forces?

[EyeScream]

Wow! I return to the thread to find that some really interesting ideas have been contributed!
This is great!

I know that involving funding in a open source is a sensitive matter but I firmly believe that commercially developed modifications is a good way to speed up things around here, especially if the mods get released back to the community as soon as a working solution has been presented. This would be the preferred solution (at least for me) since the further development of the mod is maintained by the open source community and not depending on a single developer. I work as an IT consultant and I´m also running a online store through Virtuemart, so I would benefit from this both as an VM user and also as a consultant.
If one of my clients, for example, would like to be able to present their products in 5-step-packages, I could request this and let my client pay for this custom work. If other users would benefit from this mod, that would be great since the development and future compatibility is of interest to more people than just myself.

The thoughts and ideas from the developers are not only interesting but also crucial for this idea to work.

da8iwr had an idea about a "Virtuemart Pro" version and this sounds interesting although I think that the best way is to integrate the development within the existing VM page because it would be easier to keep track of develeopment and future core integrations, as crackdaddy mentioned earlier.

I never thought that I would write this by the way but, to my surprise, crackdaddy actually summarized my thoughts quite well!


Joachim A mentioned that this could be a matter of installing VM in Virtuemart.net and customize it and I believe that it would be a good start. It would need some customization in order for this to work and also some administration time.

I´d really like to know what Soeren and/or the other core developers think of this idea and the possibility to implement it on the current site?

Be well!

/..EyeScream

[Joachim A]

Hi Eyescream,

I agree with you.

By my own experience It is fairly easy to implement from the structural point. there is no harcode changes necesary. Just installing and configuring VM and changes in the  Language files (change Price to Donation, and items in stock to donations still needed) ) and graphics (change add to cart to donate).

You can see it at work is csvimproved.com.

Most of the work would be to create the products (Vm projects and requests).  This could be done by anyone willing to help creating a CSV file with all the existing request.
I also hope the team implements this,
Joachim

[Stacey Schaller]

CrackDaddy,

If I may, I would like to thank you for showing professionalism and courtesy in your recent response. You, no doubt, remember my frustration with some previous posts. I like to "call a Spade a Spade," and that includes Complements as well as Criticism. You certainly demonstrated that you do intend to make positive contributions to this community, and I stand corrected. If you continue in this way, you will definitely earn my respect as a Professional.

Thanks,

Stacey

[EyeScream]

*cough*
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/option,com_mtree/task,viewlink/link_id,2650/Itemid,35/
*cough*

I have absolutely NO idea whats written on the publishers homepage but still...


/..EyeScream

[Robin]

hey people,

the batch update of order status mod contained in this thread is great and works well,
I have also found a mod located here :

http://virtuemart.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=71&topic=22397

it the printing of multiple orders.

I'm a code 'hacker', no coder, i have combined these 2 mods and they work well, but for some reason the date is not showing correctly  on the order.order_list page (it's not showing the year), can someone please take a look at the package i have attached in the above mention thread and tell what's wrong.

Thanks in anticipation.....

[Tim Mallory]

Funding is always an issue for open source software.  Many people have coding skills and donate much of their time to development.  Many other people do not have the technical skills, and can only donate money or other support.  As projects become more complex, they can become more than a full time job.  Most projects have a donate system for this.

In the case of donations targeted at mods or code that the person donating wants completed, there is an excellent example in use by the people maintaining the Horde webmail system ( reference http://horde.org/bounties/ ).  They allow people to post bounties on mods.  Many of these people are businesses that are making money and want the mods.  The mods are written by individuals or sometimes by the core team and the bounty received.  The code itself is open source and becomes part of the project.  Its actually a good route to generate more funding for a project.  Also, for businesses it is easier to justify that they spent $500 on a mod to excellent software than it is to convince management to donate straight out.  The key here is that to mod developers (in some cases the core team) get funded to continue working, and the community at large benefits from to code.

[crackdaddy]

what if the funding went to the core project and the core prject managers delegated the jobs to quaified applicants, thereby mainting the quality control and instant integration into the core code of vm, we could setup a scriptlance area where dev could apply or bid on certain mods or upgrades?, and the code must be pass final approval b4 getting paid or paid in full by the core team, and this would seem like a better approach maybe?
i like the concept of have the bounties, where your money earmarked for a certain section, there must also be a COMPLETE feature set/list for each area so all the bases are covered the first time.
the proposed developer must be able to match exact coding standards for integration into the core, as well as outline the understanding of the score of the functionality and his proposed solution to functionalites... scalablity is the key, so if we mod 1 area than the code or sturture could be reused on other areas that match the same schema, so someone who has overall knoedge must be able to sigle handedly oversee it, more to come...

[Joachim A]

Hi Crackdaddy,
I agree with you. The VM team is the one best suited to control the funding for projects, assign  and manage them.  I also believe it would be only fair that VM gets whenever possible part of the resources. The core Team could act as contractor or  develop the projects in house.

There is more to this and after writing for a while I decided to post it as a new thread for its beyond the scope of this one.

[gregdev]

Hi all!

This is a great discussion. Here is some feedback from my point of view:

1. More participation in the VirtueMart project would be great.

The core team consists of very few people. Help is greatly appreciated.

2. We have many offers to help, but very few who actually follow through or who take the initiative to get to know us and provide suggestions PLUS real work.

There is a big difference between wanting a feature and actually implementing it. Also, there are may tasks that are, to some, less exciting, but are necessary: bug fixes, documentation, forum management, releases, etc. We have had offers for help, but very few who remain very long. Working on an open source project is difficult because for most of us, it is a side job or a hobby. Commitment is difficult to establish in such an environment. Also, we really need people who want to work with and support the project, and who, although needing guidance, do not need their hands held to get things done.

3. The code quality issues are a real concern.

I've seen some really poor modifications and some really good modifications. For example, Joseph Kwan's "Bulk Order Status Update" is nice. I've asked him to write an integration for VirtueMart 1.1. Although it is nice to have a particular feature, the details of how the feature is implemented are also important. Many nice features are poorly implemented. Often hacks are made that work for a particular situation, but that do not generalize well.

4. The ideas about funding and resources are good to hear.

These need work, but look promising.

5. Here are some general suggestions:

• If you are interested in helping the project, please join us in our weekly developer meetings on Wednesdays at 8:30 pm CET. I think you will find that we are open to improving the VirtueMart project and product. If enough people are interested in joining us, it would be nice if you PM'ed me an agenda item so that we can work through this in an organized way. By attending the developer meeting, you'd also get an idea of where VirtueMart is headed. This can help you understand why some things, although nice, are not implemented in the current version of VirtueMart.
• Look through the bug tracker, find a bug you can fix, and submit a patch to that task (if you did this well a few times, you would surely gain trust).
• Get to know the inner workings of VirtueMart. It's one thing to recognize that VirtueMart needs improvement, it's another thing to know enough about VirtueMart to actually implement those improvements (with good quality), or to suggest and implement a new architecture (that takes understanding of how things work so that your suggestions are trusted).

Greg

[Joachim A]

Hi Greg,

It is really Great to hear from you.

Some comments:

This is exactly what its is all about. The ideas are here ; now to  make them a reality.
I've made my offer and I stand by it.
The first step is the Ok and support from the Vm team for a project support and financing system.
I'll be there next Wednesday on the meeting.

Joachim

PD: I'm no coder but. I can find a bug.

[myth2112]

I am interested in;

Gift wrap option
Gift registry, there is one available but has some issues may someone could take over and make it better.

I have been trying to get a gift wrap mod done for the past 2 months. but no one has been too interested in it.

If anyone is interested in seeing the spec sheet I put together and quote me a price, send me a PM!  I don't mind paying for the mod either alone or together with others and making it available for all to use. 

[Joachim A]

Hi Myth,
There is a hack that may do this for you: extended attributes

Check it out,
Joachim

[Joachim A]

Hi Guys,

We got an answer. I'm going to assist to next weeks meeting and already send a request to include this topic in the meeting. I would like to know who is serious in participating join a team to  implement this and also join the meeting.

We got some great ideas here and now we have the opportunity to propose a coherent model and how to implement it.

As the first step here is a summary the project:

Project Sumary

• Objective: To create a system the facilitates development of projects that satisfies specific  needs of VM user   groups and its financing.
• Overview: Users will propose a project and once approved  a donation goal will be established and posted. Customers will be able to donate in part or in full for those features they are interested in. All Projects will be scaled at a donation ladder and those project with the most donations will attain  a higher development priority. Once the donation goal is achieved the responsible team will send it to the developer team who will decide who will realize the project and a date for its release, and enter the development cycle.
• Conditions and limitations:Projects developed under this model have to comply with these conditions:
  Developed under VM standards and codes.
  The development will become available to the Virtue mart community as a whole for the benefit of all.
  The feature will be integrated as part of virtuemart core or as a Joomla add on depending on its nature.
  The project will be developed by the VM team or outsourced under the supervision of the team.
  The project will be maintained and supported by the community

Resources:

Technical: Module or component where projects can be posted, funds collected, and  priorities set according to donations.  Two are proposed: Virtuemart adapted for donations (as in csvimproved.com) or JoomLancers. Server where this will be installed and access to manage it.

Human: A person or a team to manage the system:
The skills needed for the project are:
    General Joomla and component usage (depending on which one is chosen)
    Graphic design.
    Writing and summarizing skills.
    General management skills.
    Communication and organization skills

Financial: I don't see any particular financial requirements at this point. The resources required are available ans collaborative effort and under the GNU license.

Please let me know if something is missing, can be improved or any thoughts.

Joachim

[gregdev]

We got some great ideas here and now we have the opportunity to propose a coherent model and how to implement it.

I have followed this topic with interest.

Please clarify for me. Are you suggesting an organizational structure for the VirtueMart project itself? or, are you suggesting something additional? At the very least, your proposal suggests this:

The project will be developed by the VM team or outsourced under the supervision of the team.

Perhaps this is suggesting something in addition to the regular work done by the VirtueMart development team.

Surfacing often among your ideas is the concept of greater participation by requesting, developing, and paying for specific projects/features. How does this concept relate to the main development of VirtueMart? The main development of VirtueMart, of course, includes implementing features like those you suggest; but, it also includes making bug fixes and security fixes, handling releases, and implementing things that we like because we like them. Most of your ideas seem to revolve around getting a new, needed feature added, often for money.

So, are you suggesting something in addition to the regular work of developing VirtueMart? If so, how can greater participation be encouraged in the regular development work too (not just specific new/better features)? To me, it would be ironic, if not paradoxical, to see a functioning structure for side projects, while the regular work continues with little assistance.

Also, although I agree that development for cash has its place, I feel strongly that voluntary development and participation is equally, if not more, important. Voluntary work is the life blood of an open source project. How do you suggest marrying the two concepts?

Greg

[crackdaddy]

i would propose to restructure the way vm is handled, and not be at the mercy of 1 person to decide what happens to the core!!