Question: Do you find VM2 overly difficult to template?

[bunglehaze]

Hi folks, just a quick question to get a bit of a show of hands really - DEV's please do not get your heckles up at this, it is in no-way meant as an attack.

Personally I am finding VM2 an absolute headache when it comes to styling pages and modules, as one of my other posts outlines there is no standard styling included with the VM Products module for an Install > Configure > Publish way to work and the most basic of shops require addition of a bit of CSS, additional DIV tags etc just to get things either in line or not looking messy. I am no developer but I am capable enough to add very basic styling where it is required with a little trial and error but to me the new all singling and dancing Virtuemart should not need this level of adjustment for a truly plug and play experience.




• Just now I have had to restyle the products module which now differs from the featured products/latest products on the category page (why - can these not share a style with the option to override?)
  
• Things such as add to cart buttons are advertised as available in module settings but missing in the moduel once published
• Category pages are just all over the place, I dropped the two column layout and added all pertinent data in the single div which is now increased to 100% - basic styling which would otherwise put off a new user
• Where most template clubs are setup to be ready to roll with CSS tweaks for customisation is IMO where VM2 should be - the CSS is something I have barely touched yet which in my eyes is odd
• Tasks such as linking the product images to product pages rather than a modal box (or blank page if modal is switched off) are not intuitive at all
• The last bit really outlines the experience for me - VM1 was a learning curve but for the most part was intuitive enough to setup and style, VM2 lacks this but appears a superior product otherwise, I guess I am a little frustrated that after spending a couple of hours trying to get things to look normal  I seem to have very little to show for my effort compared to what I would have achieved ripping a template club template apart (for example)

As I say, this is in no way an attack on the hard work the DEV's have obviously put in to making VM2 a superior product and I only hope that somewhere along the lines these comments are viewed as constructive feedback as I want VM to continue to grow and attract new users in order to develop things further.

If you are having any frustrations with setting up and styling your VM2 install please jot down your feedback under here so we can have a central list of 'gripes' that perhaps we can resolve together.

[JtouchMobile.com]

I don't know but no problem with me since VM2 use Joomla 1.5/1.7 template model, it is really MCV driven
But I should forget the way VM1 generate its content, and come to Joomla structure/code.

It is just too hard to custom a template this time, 'cause of RC (beta?!) release, lot of changes in each new version out

[PRO]

• Just now I have had to restyle the products module which now differs from the featured products/latest products on the category page (why - can these not share a style with the option to override?)
  

• Things such as add to cart buttons are advertised as available in module settings but missing in the moduel once published

• Category pages are just all over the place, I dropped the two column layout and added all pertinent data in the single div which is now increased to 100% - basic styling which would otherwise put off a new user

• Where most template clubs are setup to be ready to roll with CSS tweaks for customisation is IMO where VM2 should be - the CSS is something I have barely touched yet which in my eyes is odd

• Tasks such as linking the product images to product pages rather than a modal box (or blank page if modal is switched off) are not intuitive at all

• The last bit really outlines the experience for me - VM1 was a learning curve but for the most part was intuitive enough to setup and style, VM2 lacks this but appears a superior product otherwise, I guess I am a little frustrated that after spending a couple of hours trying to get things to look normal  I seem to have very little to show for my effort compared to what I would have achieved ripping a template club template apart (for example)

[/list]

Add To Cart Buttons in Modules work in the latest version.
Category Page layout: There is no way to please everyone with a layout. I didnt like it myself, so I made my own.
RE: Modal     That code is in the Stickies to change this yourself. Its supposed to be changed sometime in the modules to link straight to product page.

Look at the stickies at the top.
http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?board=130.0


I have found 2.0 to be WAY easier to customize the look than old vmart.

Actually diggin in, and having a hard time is what is going to make you learn it.

You can always take a template, like say the category template. THEN, remove everything , and do your own by copying the fields from the "fields thread" .

[bunglehaze]

Banquet Tables. I appreciate that there are solutions to the problems and I have managed to find a balance at the moment between what I want and what works. My point is that out of the box VM2 is a little all over the place regarding styling. yes I agree there is no one size fits all for any kind of software but not styling modules seems crazy to me.

If you will excuse me for potentially sounding blunt, it is not intentional. But it seems to me that the styling is programmer led in that it takes someone versed in coding to be able to delve straight in, this bypasses those jumping in to ecommerce and code for the very first time and makes it really hard for them to know where to begin whereas including commented dummy templates as standard - even basic ones, will help guide newcomers rather than scare them. More experienced coders will of course strip a template and make it as they like but they will of course have the foundations to be able to figure this on their own and not need guidance in the same way. Not everyone wants to learn CSS or even has the capacity to, some users will just want to bang up a simple webshop with minimal fuss and modification in order to get selling and this is the only area so far I see as a weakness to the new version.

VM2 may be way easier to customise but for me it does not 'appear' very easy to do so, as I said previously - it does not come across as very intuitive.

What version are you classing as the latest BTW? I am still on M and add to cart is not functioning in modules.

I already changed the module template as well as category pages to link to the product detail page, this is the most logical way to setup IMO

[adham]

the styling is programmer led

I 100% agree with this

It is very hard for non programmers to do things, it might sound easy for the developers of VM2, but most of the VM users are not programmers. I am on my 3rd day trying to restyle some very basic things and I am really thinking of giving up, just too much trouble for a simple style. too many files to edit and read to find that small line of code, then it doesnt work as there is another line somewhere that need to be edited.

I dont think it was done with make it difficult in mind, but it sure seems it went that way.
I was using k2mart with k2 just because the templates are a  nightmare to do in VM1. also lack of documentations make it really hard to find out what is needed, and then if you find anything, it is programmer oriented.

Hope the developers see this point and deal with the feedbacks objectively rather than seeing this post as a bad feedback, which is not. just make things simpler or clearer might be the correct word.

Suggestion: how about a help section explaining where and what to do with examples.

Thanks for all the hard work

[dpodesta]

Have to agree I find the styling very difficult. Great product though and really appreciate all of the work that has gone into it.
An easier way to style or just a collection of view files would be fantastic. I'd imagine that really you would not need that many to satisfy most requirements.

[JtouchMobile.com]

I think the "how to custom VM template" section on VM is a good suggestion
- Have you ever found it to hard to upgrade to new release of VM 1?
- Have you ever ask yourself that there has a lot of templates for Joomla 1.5, but not for VM 1?

Take a few hours in hundred thousand hours of your life to understand how a Joomla standard for Modal-Control-View works, then I think you will love the way VM 2 deal with its layout

In the other hand, the VM2 baby is not just designed for shop-owner, but also for developer, designer, IT manager guys - do a balancing
for those people is not easy, really not easy, friend!