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Virtuemart Dead or Alive ? Whats the roadmap and future ?

Started by dirkb, December 17, 2020, 15:50:12 PM

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nebojsa

I must say that I agree on some statements here that Joomla and VM websites gives outdated feeling.
On the other hand, Woo doesn't give many out of the box features like VM does. All extensions for Woo you need to install or buy.
What I find as a big drawback of VM is lack of quality made templates.
Most of payed templates I find for VM are old and outdated - patched many times.
Also when you take a look for VM templates on template monster or other reseller websites you see that Woo vs VM template variety is like 100:1. 
The latest example is virtuemarttemplates.net - when I bought a template some files were 8 years old. Many functions didn't work so I had to update template coding myself.
I am not a web developer. I am creating websites for my company and my friends and family, but the way I see VM future is unfortunately bad unless VM change things from the core.
I was always asking myself why VM doesn't create own CMS framework and move out from Joomla.
Joomla only creates compatibility issues with VM and make things more complicated.

jenkinhill

@nebojsa I would not use a template from the places you mention. I mostly use templates developed by designers who have also been involved in VM development, such as Olympian Themes or VirtuePlanet. Olympian especially are so easy to modify and are available from the VM extensions store.
Kelvyn
Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK

Retired from forum life November 2023

Please mention your VirtueMart, Joomla and PHP versions when asking a question in this forum

nebojsa

That's also part of the problem. VM should have it's own (and modern looking) extension and template store where we can find everything we need in one place. I know there is official VM store but things that are sold over there are crap and general impression over that store is ... well ... let's say poor and unfinished. However, own VM store would offer a possibility for VM developers to earn some extra $.
Thank you for your recommendation, I will certainly look at template producers you sent me but I had problem finding them on Google so I just bought what looked nice to me.

ermes

Quote from: zheekan on April 29, 2021, 13:36:24 PM
And are you expecting to get VM that is capable of doing that for free?

VirtueMart can handle "smoothly" hundreds of thousands of products. I do it many times with dropshipping sites for example. these websites imports a csv file of products supplies by manufacturer. VirtueMart is a great solution but with a bit old interface.
Then com_ajax can be used with all jquery/bs version. You don't have to use joomla's built-in libraries (as vm already does). So i don't view the problem. Unfortunately i can't assure time to develop for virtuemart (my work and family...) to write a new and modern UI.

zheekan

@Nebojsa
I agree with everything you say except the moving out of Joomla part of your comment.
That would ask for a huge ammount of additional effort for the whole VM team (at least I think it would), and judging by what I read here on the forum it looks like the core team already has a lot of work just maintaining what exists and adding new features. If they can't afford the time to offer an upgraded UI and more streamlined workflow, then they for sure can't afford to do something like that.
Also (some might disagree) but Joomla needs VM and VM needs Joomla. If you decide to leave the Joomla ecosystem, then you're on your own. What about marketing then, how do you acquire new users? I don't remember ever seeing an add for VM. They probably don't need one, Joomla does it for them (indirectly).

@jenkinhill
Trying to visit Olympian themes you get this message: Dear visitors, we do not sell, update or support our products anymore.
I've bought and meddled with Virtueplanet Merchant template ages ago, I see that they put out one new template since then and it looks fair enough, but nothing more. That template would probably be the only one out there that I would consider buying if Joomlapro hadn't created a plugin that integrates with Yootheme and allows me to manipulate the looks of VM in a builder.

pinochico

QuoteYou don't have to use joomla's built-in libraries

Hmm, pls thinking my idea.
If I need load eshop to 0,6ms, then I need only one the best library.
Not joomla + virtuemart + others JS and libraries, only one and the best.

As I said last time - when I need hobby eshop with 100 products, then I use some online shop solution, not Joomla/VM.
www.minijoomla.org  - new portal for Joomla!, Virtuemart and other extensions
XML Easy Feeder - feeds for FB, GMC,.. from products, categories, orders, users, articles, acymailing subscribers and database table
Virtuemart Email Manager - customs email templates
Import products for Virtuemart - from CSV and XML
Rich Snippets - Google Structured Data
VirtueMart Products Extended - Slider with products, show Others bought, Products by CF ID and others filtering products

nebojsa

@jenkinhill I have looked at both template producers recommendation you posted and I must say I am very dissapointed. Olympian website doesn't work well (at least not on mobile version) and on Virtueplanet you cannot click on extensions link lol.
With no offense to anyone from Olympian and Virtueplanet but it's far from good.
Also all the templates I have seen over there are far from what I can call modern.
Take a look at Woocommerce template offers, you would be surprised how cool and good looking templates they offer.
VM has powerful coding team but when it comes to design then I can say "Houston, we have a problem!".

nebojsa

@zheekan You are probably right. However, VM shares the same destiny as Joomla. If Joomla falls down, VM will fall down with it too. Wordpress is now most popular CMS solution while Joomla global share fell down to only 10% of total websites. When I started using Joomla/VM they had like 70%.

zheekan

Quote from: pinochico on April 29, 2021, 16:10:04 PM
Hmm, pls thinking my idea.

What does this mean, I don't understand?

Quote from: pinochico on April 29, 2021, 16:10:04 PM
As I said last time - when I need hobby eshop with 100 products, then I use some online shop solution, not Joomla/VM.

We see things very differently. I don't consider a shop with 100 products a hobby. Maybe someone that is trying to play around with dropshipping can consider it a hobby.
I had quite a few clients that run small to medium sized companies that have less than a 100 products in their portfolio (and sometimes just a few products), but are established in their respective fields and make great stuff.
The last shop I created was for a soap company that has 12 different soaps. That's it, 12 products with no real intention in growing the product base.
But those soaps are highly regarded and have a growing fan base. I know, sounds funny, but that's how it is.
I probably could have created a simpler solution, but they needed a backend with order management and statistics, and the plan for the website itself is a bigger one than just a shop. So Joomla and VM were a logical choice.

@Nebojsa
You are correct, WP has hugely surpassed Joomla in user base, but 10% is still a HUGE number.
Even if it falls down to 1% it will be a huge number. My general impression of Joomla right now is that it's a great system, with all its flaws included. After all, that's why we're still here  ;D
And finally, every threat is usually also an opportunity. A huge number of users that are now on WP could already be searching for better options. Who will offer that option?

ermes

Quote from: zheekan on April 29, 2021, 18:24:15 PM
You are correct, WP has hugely surpassed Joomla in user base, but 10% is still a HUGE number.
Even if it falls down to 1% it will be a huge number. My general impression of Joomla right now is that it's a great system, with all its flaws included. After all, that's why we're still here  ;D
And finally, every threat is usually also an opportunity. A huge number of users that are now on WP could already be searching for better options. Who will offer that option?

WP is a house of cards: even a clean installation can implode at any moment.

zheekan

Quote from: ermes on April 29, 2021, 18:39:43 PM
WP is a house of cards: even a clean installation can implode at any moment.
I share your opinion, even though I can't base it on code knowledge. That's my experience with it.

Jumbo!

Quote from: nebojsa on April 29, 2021, 16:17:48 PM
on Virtueplanet you cannot click on extensions link lol.

@nebojsa Can you please explain the problem? We will be glad to fix the issue.
One Page Checkout for VirtueMart - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-one-page-checkout"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-one-page-checkout[/url]
VirtueMart Email Manager - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-email-manager"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-email-manager[/url]
Conversion Tracking for VirtueMart - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-conversion-tracking"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-conversion-tracking[/url]
Reports for VirtueMart - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vm-reporter"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vm-reporter[/url]
Responsive VirtueMart Templates - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/joomla-templates/"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/joomla-templates/[/url]

pinochico

to zheekan:

QuoteSo Joomla and VM were a logical choice

Yes,  I undestand and you are definitelly right. ("Hobby" I mean

but for this solution you don't need high optimalization in VirtueMart, only standard instalation and go on (it doesn't matter how long the eshop is loaded (2,3 or 6 seconds and what its rating is.)

But I speak about other type shop...

Try:
www.jancaelektro.cz (220 000 products)
www.ventilatory-shop.cz (45 000 products)

that was our client on VM, but go away, because VM was bad - not quickly, not optimalized, with lot of bugs (yes, the same bugs I see from 2015 in code still - I wrote in forum for DEV and nothing heapend).

When DEV team will create idea from DEV team, but not for ending customers, then I can't use VirtueMart for really bussines shop (only as I said "Hobby shop").

And check this:
http://kiosek.jancaeshop.cz
(user: minion, pass: 512uredniku)

This is website from us for jancaelektro.cz, but very quickly, without bugs.
Is not Virtuemart :)

But I need VirtueMart for these type of shops... with loading 0,6 second and I definitelly know is possible from our history - but with lot of hours for optimalization, because core code for
- search
- filtering
- view
are very slowly (v. 3.8.9 are slowest then v.3.4.2)

Why customfields is indexing by name of customfield and not by ID? (from begining in VM2 - look and our easyvirtuemart 1.19 for J1.5, where customfields indexing by ID)

You know why are sometimes sad? Because priority for ecommerce for ending customers are little bit different as DEV team, and the changes were supposed to come 5 years ago, now they are late and over.

Oh men :)

I can speak and speak a long time, but I must work :)
www.minijoomla.org  - new portal for Joomla!, Virtuemart and other extensions
XML Easy Feeder - feeds for FB, GMC,.. from products, categories, orders, users, articles, acymailing subscribers and database table
Virtuemart Email Manager - customs email templates
Import products for Virtuemart - from CSV and XML
Rich Snippets - Google Structured Data
VirtueMart Products Extended - Slider with products, show Others bought, Products by CF ID and others filtering products

nebojsa

@Jumbo! Sure. Just go to the website with your mobile phone and try to click Browse extensions. I would send a screenshot but you will not able to see that it's not clickable.

Jumbo!

Quote from: nebojsa on April 29, 2021, 21:03:01 PM
@Jumbo! Sure. Just go to the website with your mobile phone and try to click Browse extensions. I would send a screenshot but you will not able to see that it's not clickable.

Thank you for pointing out the issue. Can you please check again now?
One Page Checkout for VirtueMart - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-one-page-checkout"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-one-page-checkout[/url]
VirtueMart Email Manager - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-email-manager"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-email-manager[/url]
Conversion Tracking for VirtueMart - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-conversion-tracking"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vp-conversion-tracking[/url]
Reports for VirtueMart - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vm-reporter"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/extensions/vm-reporter[/url]
Responsive VirtueMart Templates - [url="https://www.virtueplanet.com/joomla-templates/"]https://www.virtueplanet.com/joomla-templates/[/url]