Virtue Mart - the future of frustration

[John Goodwin]

Well, I just made the mistake of trying another Virutemart installation, thinking maybe it could handle a simple one product line store. Within ten minutes I'm back in the errors that have kept me digging through these forums for so many hours in the past. And people are still posting this week about the same errors I've had to deal with before.
Let's face it, and I've wanted to say this before, but held my virtual tongue, VirtueMart sucks! Its the clunkiest, least intuitive, buggiest, bloatedest most frustrating, aggravating, promising but disappointing Joomla component I've ever seen, and I've been doing Joomla! since it was Mambo.
The interface is not that attractive, customization is difficult, the registration process is arduous, and the shipping options don't really work. Zone shipping for example. Tax configuration is a nightmare. Anyone who wants to try selling software and offer free trials and also sell things that need a shipping charge is going to end up mired in code hacks and hours of toil for a less than satisfactory ecommerce solution. Imagine a site that tries to add shipping to free downloads!
I would recommend anything over Virtuemart. Just create content pages and put PayPal buttons on each one. It'll take you less time and work better.
Sorry, Soeren, and everyone else who has committed time and effort to make this work, but it just doesn't. Its not a real e-commerce solution.
Last time I tried this I spent literally months tweaking, hacking, modding and every time I thought it was going to work, something else came up.
Anything but Virtuemart. I write this partly so that if I ever think about trying this again I can come here and read it and remind myself of the folly. (Although I'm sure the post won't last long. I understand. I know I'm unloading, but its my honest feedback...)
Wish I could write something nice and enthusiastic, but its terrible! I know you can respond with "Open source....." yada yada, "Community effort..." yada yada. But its NO GOOD!!!

Ciao.
John

[Scott Carroll]

John (And everyone else who feels the same),

I am sorry you feel this way. Virtuemart is a work in progress. With the upcoming release of Joomla 1.5, all of our efforts are being put into a fully functional Virtuemart 1.1 rollout. During this transitional stage, we are stretched thing developing 1.1 and trying to support 1.0.13. Please do not pass judgment on us until after 1.1 has been out for awhile. I personally feel that Virtuemart is already ahead of osCommerce in aesthetics and user friendliness, and if we were around as long as them, we would have a more robust system. Our teams are growing in membership and we are gaining momentum, not losing.

Soeren, you have done an excellent job so far. And I chose to spend my free time helping to develop Virtuemart over other open source offerings for a reason. I am sure the other devs agree.

I feel you are being too harsh too soon. Please let us know how you feel about Virtuemart again when 1.1 is finalized.

[willowtree]

I appreciate the views of both posts. The team developers do not get anything in return for hours dedicated to VM. I do appreciate the work they do.

However, it is very easy to feel frustrated. The promise of 1.1 has been around for a number of years now, and it will now require JM 1.5. Many sites using VM also use a number of other componants which may or may not be possible to upgrade immediately, and we have no real timeline for either jm1.5 or vm 1.1

In the meantime it feels like all the people who know anything about theVM system are working on vm1.1 which makes trying to work or get help on 1.0.13 very difficult.

I appreciate that there are many threads asking the same questions, however the documentation is all for vm 1.1 which doesn't help them search for answers, or work out how to solve thier problems.

There are also many questions asked in the forums by fairly experienced users trying to improve VM or add popular requested features who have new questions and who need a little guidance on the inner workings of VM.

Personally i have been trying to develop a couple of mods/hacks whatever you want to call them. The response to my queries has been pretty much zero. It has been mainly how to use existing VM functions but there is noone to help. If someone could help others develop things then perhaps it would reduce the demands on the core team with reduced requests for the same features, and possibly also some code to base core updates on.

just an opinion - I don't mind being ignored - I do not mean to offend or take the developers work for granted.

[Alejandro Kurczyn]

Virtuemart being a work in progress by definition has some unpolished edges. I guess you, John, fall in the group of users who need those edges.

It might be true that for your needs VM does not work like you want and I can understand you discarding VM in a single stroke. However, you could also roll your sleves up to improve the code and share with everybody else and contribute to make VM the best ecommerce solution.

Agreed, it is not perfect, but it is the closest to be.

ps: I will surely never return to the HELL that OScommerce and Zen-Cart was. And as for taxes, i'm pretty sure our Brazilian friends have much more problems than you can imagine.

[pixiepie]

Unfortunately I can appreciate John's sentiments. My ONE VirtueMart site has been running for over a year, but we are left with two lingering issues for which there seems to be no REAL permanent solution. My client is working around them, but she is rightfully frustrated that she has to find "workarounds" for what should be a fully functioning e-commerce solution.

The most annoying of these lingering issues is that the PayPal notify script no longer works as it should. As such my client has to MANUALLY update her order statuses, and she continually gets those fraud alert e-mails for EACH & EVERY order which uses PayPal. There are TONS of questions in this forum for people having the same problem. I've tried ALL of the few solutions posted and NOT ONE OF THEM worked.. So for now my client must MANUALLY validate each and every PayPal order, update the order status manually, and then delete what is now SPAM e-mail that is generated every time one of her customer's pay with PayPal.

I've been told that we should upgrade VirtueMart. However, based on the forum chatter, the notify issue with PayPal seems to persist even with the newest version. So, I think I'll save myself the inevitable frustration and considerable waste of my time by NOT upgrading. I'm no longer holding my breath that a solution is forthcoming for my two remaining issues. Furthermore, my client can't wait until the much hyped new and much improved version of VirtueMart is released. Besides even when it's released, she has to HOPE that it resolves all of the issues she is "working around" now... I would like to say I am hopeful that the new version with be TRULY better, but sadly I don't see it dazzling me.. (Though I'll certainly download it, set it up on a test server and see how it acts before I make a final judgement..)

In the meantime I have to provide my client with a working shopping cart.. So I'm left with two options:
1. Hire a PHP programmer to fix my client's remaining VirtueMart issues.
2. Find an e-commerce solution for my client that is free of the issues she is now having.

I'm leaning towards option #2. I have several clients happily running ZenCart. Now while I prefer the templating features in Joomla over ZenCart's templating system, I have gotten pretty good at creating some very creative and asthetically pleasing ZenCart stores. More importantly, they all WORK.. I have spent practically NO follow-up time with my ZenCart clients. On the other hand my ONE VirtueMart client and I have been joined at the hip since I launched her site.. Frankly both she and I have both had enough of fooling around with VirtueMart.. She is has long since lost patience with me not being able to get answers to her issues.. No offense to the developers here, but at least the ZenCart developers respond to questions on their forum. Plus there is at least a VERY helpful online user guide that answers every question under the sun for basic setup questions..

I WISH my experience with VirtueMart had been the same.. I wanted it to be.. Maybe one day it will.. That certainly is not my experience today..

Like John said I know you can respond with "Open source....." yada yada, "Community effort..." yada yada. However, as much as I tried to like VirtueMart, I am BEYOND frustrated with the product.. And before anyone tells me that I can jump in and help code, let me say this.. if I could help code, I would fix my own issues and never look back.. "Help us code" has got to stop being the predictable answer shot out every time someone expresses their frustration around here..

[Derrick Young]

I to am to far down a road with VM to turn back right now.  When I first looked at VM there were issues like Taxes in Canada and issues around paypal and others.  2 years later I am still faced with those same issues.  As I search through the forums the most frustrating thing I see is the number of issues that go unresponded to. 

I am not a php programmer but I have enough knowledge that I can apply changes if instructed and follow the logic.  We chose VM as we are very happy with Joomla which to is open source.  But on the rare occasion I have posted problems or issues with Joomla/Mambo I have always had people offer solutions.  Here I have tried to search for solutions to by issues and only find many others asking the same questions with no reply ever coming.

[pixiepie]

I tried VM just because Joomla is the best PHP CMS available and has a lot of extensions. VM is too far away from the term definition: "shopping cart solution for Joomla". The Developers always will say they don't have much time, the team is limited only to a few guys.....

Yep I agree.. I love the ease of Joomla sites, and VM is only one of two working e-commerce components available. I'll continue to build Joomla sites, but I'm gonna have to seriously reconsider my e-commerce options with my next Joomla site..

[kane357]

Virtuemart kicks ass, ive used it for about 2 years now, its the easiest and most functional cart ive ever used. I love joomla also.

www.mogbroker.com you cant beat it, i built this on virtuemart - i dont know coding but i can now tell you exactly what file does what, if not exact i can tell u which folder to find it in.

Tell me your exact errors and ill help you fix it, promise.

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

oh Great!  Kane357, Do you know how or where do you turn on the affiliate programme?
If you help me solve this issue I´ll tell you a speciall secret about VM and paypal...

I know they did a great job, but they also inherited a great responsability, and at this point they are failing trmendously.
Joomla has grown exponentialy, so did VM. That´s the problem Soeren whas not ready for... Fast growth.

[addison]

This if for Kane357.

You told us you don't know coding. By the other hand you can help us to fix erros. I am wondering how can you do that?

I looked over your website and it is a very simple one. With such of site you can affirm VM kicks ass.

Did you try to have a Wish List, to save a cart for future a order, to compare your products, and many others missing important features from VM?

The DEV TEAM should think to get more people close to them and speed up the things. There are many other new open source projects who will be available in 2008. VM will be old stuff.

I am continuing to work with Joomla and a few extensions, for a CMS with a forum and a few features, but for my shopping cart I will get X-Cart with all modules and a few custom working.

[Nirm]

I have to say that I have been impressed by VM and its ease of use - and this is the point - to a novice user it is easy to get a pretty functional e-commerce solution up within days. To those who need more advanced features maybe VM (in its current version) is not the right solution. And this is always the problem, when something tries to be everything to everybody it will always fall short.

In my experience VM does suffer from its success - there are too many requests for help and too few developers. The documentation is ok but not perfect. I am a complete novice at developing e-commerce sites and I do feel it is my responsibility to help out whenever I can by answering questions. Also testing beta versions is a must to keep the momentum going. Its easy to vent frustrations on the forum but we all have to remember that there was only ONE developer (Soren)  on this project until very recently, and that to me is extraordinary.

It will be interesting to see VM1.1 but I do think that the VM team need to look over at Magento Commerce - www.magentocommerce.com. Too me this appears (I stress appears)  what VM should be. And it could also, I fear, spell the end for VM. I for one will keep supporting VM and hope that the team can get all the negatives sorted.

Cheers 

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

Its easy to vent frustrations on the forum but we all have to remember that there was only ONE developer (Soren)  on this project until very recently, and that to me is extraordinary.

No Nirm, this is not good, this is the problem!, seoren should had managed t build a nice team from start instead of cloning itself for everything.

[El Fanjo]

Don't worry people who are bragging will never help, will never buy a commercial solution, will always complain. They think one can have everything on one solution and for free, which I call dreaming.

So here is a hint for the unhappy people among us  : before using one solution or another please check its features and see if they match your needs, if not then don't use it, but please quit complaining... VM is free stuff !!!

[Nirm]

What he should have done is a matter for history - what he has done is extraordinary (at least in my opinion). He has put together a team all be it a small one. But the fact is that there is an open invitation to join the team so its not as if this is some exclusive club - everyone has been invited!!

I think the problem stems from the lack of support or perceived lack of support. I had major issues with customising Vm when I started out - I had limited feedback on my posts - lots of sleepless nights and frustration but in the end the simplest solution was to hire a developer and get the thing sorted. And it cost me a total of $300. 300 Thats a small price to pay for a  fully fledged e-commerce site.

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

Yes it is extaordinary, but not enougth. The proove is:
VM used to be one of the best solutions for a small shop, now there are plenty of FREE options better than this one.
VM is no leader anymore, just because of too slow resource planing and bad assesing.

They could have build a paid "pro version" instead of hiding under 3rd level companies to make cash, even if that had meaned a fork of VM. Now it´s maybe too late and the project may find a hard time in the next month unless an extremly fast reaction.

And a lot of humility!, after all Virtuemart Is a fork of a project made to run under a fork of another project.
You can not ban people or delete threads as if you where GOD just becaus ethey don´t think like you do.

Seroen! This is not YOUR PROJECT, it blongs to the community, your actions are leading VM to a pitfall, If you really love this project, you should retire and let some fresh air to enter.