Why Redmine

[Rune Rasmussen]

I just have to ask, why Redmine?

Why not GitHub or whatever else where it's possible to contribute easily with code reviews, suggestions/pull requests, issues etc?

Why are VM still in the dark middle-ages?

[Milbo]

It is easy to contribute. Seems like you have no clue.

First: it is intended that there is no discussion, no suggestions all that. Rule number one concentrate. It makes no sense to open another forum.
Second: if you want to contribute, create a patch. If you are doing good work, you get svn access. So long, you can create your own git.

[Rune Rasmussen]

Right ... god bless you Max.

[Studio 42]

Hi,
I have the same problem, you say we can do patch, but a simple line or 2 of code get not tested.
It's easy to do but not done currently.
I hate hacking VM, but currently i have no choice, because i have to fix bugs in Virtuemart, and in update this get loosed(and mostly is not solved)

Why not Github, then any can check a branch and at end you win time and user can contribute.
Currently no fixes are added, or noone know if this is added in the new release. I don't understand why not github, seems your the only one have right to commit and valerie ?

I don't say my fixes are ideal for all, but noone can check this, i have no time to redistributes all my change for each user.

Greets,

Patrick

[Rune Rasmussen]

and in update this get loosed(and mostly is not solved)

Why not Github, then any can check a branch and at end you win time and user can contribute.
Currently no fixes are added, or noone know if this is added in the new release. I don't understand why not github,

Excactly, plus the fact it's all public at GitHub.
If a issue is created all can find it. If it's fixed, or there is a proposed fix, all can see it - no need to continue doing all on their own in all corners in the world without ever getting it into the core.

Btw! This forum doesn't work well anyway, so close it if it bothers you to have GitHub issues on the side. But anyhow it's quite different things.

[Studio 42]

Ye github is not a forum, but It's easier to check Issues as in the forum.
And you can always report issues and give link back to forum.
And you can directly reply to issue and close it, or add a release with fix that some can test it.
Try to find the current fixes in forum provided by developers. Impossible to follow, impossible to know if this issu is closed and added in a repo!
Using github, you can follow all !

[Milbo]

Patrick, your patches got tested and decided that it cannot be taken. Furthermore you worked 2 years within the team, so actually your case is unique, and you know that.

[Rune Rasmussen]

Max, whether Patrick has been in the team or not doesn't change anything in this topic.

your patches got tested and decided that it cannot be taken

On GitHub it would all be in the open, when it was submitted, when and why it got refused - PLUS the code/idea to improve/build upon for others.

[Studio 42]

It's why, i think the Github is a good tools.
YOu can contribute when you have time and when you have bugs.
Not need to be in the Team and Perhaps my solution was not the best, but the bugs are here and get not solved.
It's why Github have the freedom that redmine don't have.
YOu have a bug, you open a issue, add a branch, some check your branch, can propose some correction. YOu add fix in your branch and add and do a pull request in main branch.
I added some issue in Joomla, My codes are in Joomla but not all.
What you don't understand, max, is that you completly block the VIrtuemart Developpement.
After you have the last word.

[Milbo]

Max, whether Patrick has been in the team or not doesn't change anything in this topic.

your patches got tested and decided that it cannot be taken

On GitHub it would all be in the open, when it was submitted, when and why it got refused - PLUS the code/idea to improve/build upon for others.

Right, here in the forum it is more clustered, but also available. Also both of you forget, that issues can be solved and be broken again. Complex feature like multilanguage is a good example. There is a problem, we solved it, joomla changes something, we have to solve it again/different way.

The next thing is that the core team is used to the forum. Last year I tried to open the tracker again, it did not work. It would take a lot energy to change the habits of the core team. Redmine has also a tracker and svn works also with git patches, so actually you can work with GIT.

Git avoids the gatekeeper problem. The gatekeeper is the person who controlls the contributed code (in vm its me). I added without joke more than 1000s of small patches, ideas and similar distributed by people in the forum.

Patrick joins regularly this discussions because I refuse his code to 80%. If you want to use Git, you can do it. But the advantage of git is also the disadvantage of it. The more you use git to handle your own hacks, the more likely your next patches does not fit to the main version.

YOu can contribute when you have time and when you have bugs.

The same here.

Not need to be in the Team and Perhaps my solution was not the best,

The same here.

but the bugs are here and get not solved.

This is really not true. I took some of your ideas, fixes. But some of them are not following our coding standards. For example you use a JRequest or JInput, instead of vRequest, JText instead of vmText and so on. Or you solve something with completly new code, leaving the old code there instead of adjusting the old code, and so on.

It's why Github have the freedom that redmine don't have.

Imho we could use for redmine also git, it is not the point. Btw

What you don't understand, max, is that you completly block the VIrtuemart Developpement.

I cant see that. It is better to have 5 high quality coders, than 50 normal coders.

[Rune Rasmussen]

Right, here in the forum it is more clustered, but also available.

Right, try to find any of it. Or at least follow up on half of it.

Also both of you forget, that issues can be solved and be broken again.

Huh ...?! Things get's broken anyway, this is not a valid point in any way.

Last year I tried to open the tracker again, it did not work.

Redmine tracker? I can see why ... it's from the stone age like the rest of it I guess.

Git avoids the gatekeeper problem. The gatekeeper is the person who controlls the contributed code (in vm its me). I added without joke more than 1000s of small patches, ideas and similar distributed by people in the forum.

Patrick joins regularly this discussions because I refuse his code to 80%. If you want to use Git, you can do it. But the advantage of git is also the disadvantage of it. The more you use git to handle your own hacks, the more likely your next patches does not fit to the main version.

Huh ...?? Sound like a problem nomather what you use, if you don't keep things up to date (don't understand how to use it).

YOu can contribute when you have time and when you have bugs.

The same here.

Not need to be in the Team and Perhaps my solution was not the best,

The same here.

Really, it is not the same.

I cant see that. It is better to have 5 high quality coders, than 50 normal coders.

Oh, you have 5 high quality coders? Anyhow, inputs and suggestions are always good if the receiver is able to listen and consider, and able to try to see things from a second angle. If not, it's a waste for sure. Maybe that is the real problem ...

Anyhow, you turning this into something personal thing between you and Patrick doesn't look good, and is bad for any "leader" to do in public. Just my 5 cents ...

Edit: Oh, and by the way. Git on Redmine is not even close to GitHub. This is not about git isolated, but the whole package, a quite different thing.

[Milbo]

Rune it is not my fault if Patrick all the time comes with it. He blames me for not taking his code. The reason why I do not take his code is just, that it is bad code. Simple. If he would not blame me, I would have no reason to defend myself. And I was really polite, you have no idea, what I could say.

"Oh, you have 5 high quality coders? Anyhow, inputs and suggestions are always good if the receiver is able to listen and consider, and able to try to see things from a second angle. If not, it's a waste for sure. Maybe that is the real problem ..."

The problem is you, rune. I talked about coders, most of the people in the team are not coders. The forum is read daily by a lot people of the team.

"Anyhow, inputs and suggestions are always good if the receiver is able to listen and consider, "
No is not good if people all the time come with already solved and answered issue. I answered it 10 times already, but you do not listen. Or you do not remind that you did this discussion already. and btw redmine is not stoneage, redmine is written in RubyonRails.

But makes no sense with you Rune, you are known as trouble maker for any mod, same with Patrick, he is also known as troublemaker.

and it is democratic. There are 4 people who want github, but these 4 peopel do not commit code or their code is not taken. So why I should listen to them? It is more important to listen to the people who do the actual work.

It is really ridicolous to say that we are missing input or suggestions, we get daily inputs and suggestions.

[StefanSTS]

Thanks, Max, for taking so many patches I have sent in the past.

I know, Max, I learnt that you don't take all the patches easily, but after a while, I understood that most important is to keep them simple and backward compatible most of the time. So I learnt not to break anything with a quick fix. ;-)

Yes, it's not always optimal, but at least with proper communication, things get done.

I just flew over the postings, but then, I don't like to waste my time with destructive talks, that leads to nothing. I like to get things done, and that is definitely possible the way, Max handles the developement.

Yeah, he is not everyones favorite, because he says things without putting sugar around his words, but well, some only need the facts and some need the sugar.

Happy living
Stefan

[Rune Rasmussen]

Hehe ... you're simply amazing Max.

Once I did post fixes, helped out people in forums, even translated a great deal of VM.
Today I have lost faith in VM, and the way it's lead, mostly built on the way posts are responded to on the forums. Therefore criticism, which quite many else has raised. Sadly "leaders" of today don't like criticism, so all who dear to discuss even the smallest issue with them is quite fast being considered trouble makers. Wondering who it says most about. For the rest all can read for themself and judge if they like to.

[Milbo]

Then tell me which fix I did not used and said nothing about it? I am sure I took them.

"mostly built on the way posts are responded to on the forums."
Because you blame and demand quite often. Look at your number of posts 94, in 7 years. 67 of them since 2014 (more than 33,4 per year). So you did from 1. August 2008 - 2013 only 27 posts (5,4 per year). It looks like that you are now more involved in forum then last years.

In the same time, some others wrote more than 2000 posts per year. Do you see the difference? No one working as mod in the forum is payed by the project, all is voluntary.

Additionally to that most of your posts are not friendly. And I remind there was some trouble between you and other norway translators. So the problem is not the criticism, it is your way to express it and that you are not happy with the given answers.