Virtuemart Dead or Alive ? Whats the roadmap and future ?

[StefanSTS]

Hi Stefan,
I quite agree with you, the support is scarce and not always "kind".

I was not talking about VirtueMart or Max or the support of the VirtueMart team, so I guess we do not totally agree, maybe in parts.

I was talking about the behaviour of Pinochico. I would not ask him to work in a team because he does not seem like a team player.
That's all I was talking about.

The support from the VirtueMart head developer might not always be top notch user friendly and with many words, but be sure everything mentioned in the forum is taken into consideration. I know that since I am listening on the developers chat for the last few years.
If the head developer would comment on everything in detail, he would not have time to do anything anymore. Important things that come up here are always discussed in the chat, there are lots of individuals who sort out what is important or not or what they can explain themselves in the forum.

If you have something to report, that you think it is a bug, it might be helpful to buy a VirtueMart membership and move your bug/improvement/feature up on the todo list by submitting a ticket.
Or you come up with a good solution and you donate the code - that doesn't break anything else in VirtueMart - here in the forum.

I guess, people in the VirtueMart team got there mostly by doing real work towards making VM better. And it is getting better day by day. There is constant work going on even if you don't really see it from outside.

Stefan

[Oukside]

I was not talking about VirtueMart or Max or the support of the VirtueMart team, so I guess we do not totally agree, maybe in parts.

Ooops! 

I was talking about the behaviour of Pinochico.

Ok. In this case, I totally and strongly agree.

--

In any case, my words doesn't change: I have high respect for all the work VirtueMart Team is doing. I think some things could be better (I repeat, more immediate support, better website and forum navigation and UX), but it doesn't mean I think it's a very valuable "thing".

--

Anyway...
I didn't understand very well what VM Membership was before your message. Since I work with several customer that have some very good idea, it would be very useful if they can be taken in consideration. I think I'll become a VM Partner

[desacartom]

We are using Virtuemart for more than 10 years and it's better than ever before with many 3rd party extensions USB Rechargeable Head Lamp, no way we would change now.

[pinochico]

to Stefan:

I understand and confirm and I definitely do not want to destroy virtual folders for anyone.
Archimedes has already shouted: do not step on my circles!
I will be happy to respect his own established judgment.

We have also been working with the VirtueMart application for about 10 years and we do not want to change anything about this fact yet. Personally, I think that VirtueMart is an underrated ecommerce solution with huge possibilities.
Why?
We use it a long time and have developed about 100 custom extensions for Virtuemart and we actively use them. We have even developed our own customization of VirtueMart - EasyVirtueMart (for J1.5, J25) several times due to better features for end users.

Once again (in 2015), as EasySoftware, we offered Max at JoomlaDay in Prague that we would take over the development of the Virtuemart application, giving the entire development guidelines based on experience with open source development and customer needs.

At that time, we had two open source projects in our portfolio:
- readmine as Easyredmine
- virtuemart as Easy Virtuemart

Today, the Easyredmine project earns tens of millions of euros per month, the Easy Virtuemart project was stopped in 2015.

But we are still developing extensions for Virtuemart and will continue to do so as long as I enjoy it and our customers need it.

[Troels_E]

I think Stefan was talking about Pinochicos posts, not Max's?
I don't see Pinochicos posts as unfriendly, I always thought it was just a language barrier and some difficulties expressing things the right way, but don't know if I am right.

Anyway on subject.
I don't really need a roadmap because these have a tendency to change and dates slip, making me and others dissappointed

I would like a way to propose new features that could be taken into consideration, something more public so it was possible to see what interest for the feature is really like.
+ A way to throw money for development of the features that gather most interest. Example feature X can be implemented within x months if a certain goal is reached.

New website and improved forums would also be nice. The first should be a priority and I seeem to remember Stefan suggesting some new designs some  years ago?

[ermes]

I think Stefan was talking about Pinochicos posts, not Max's?
I don't see Pinochicos posts as unfriendly, I always thought it was just a language barrier and some difficulties expressing things the right way, but don't know if I am right.

Anyway on subject.
I don't really need a roadmap because these have a tendency to change and dates slip, making me and others dissappointed

I would like a way to propose new features that could be taken into consideration, something more public so it was possible to see what interest for the feature is really like.
+ A way to throw money for development of the features that gather most interest. Example feature X can be implemented within x months if a certain goal is reached.

New website and improved forums would also be nice. The first should be a priority and I seeem to remember Stefan suggesting some new designs some  years ago?

Finally someone that do a good proposal!!
I have already explaned the improvements that VM should have (you can read it previously in this topic).

[zheekan]

Let me throw in my two cents.
I believe that there's a lot of us willing to pay for a good, intuitive web shop component that has an up-to-date documentation. If the forum/community is helpful (as a last resort of finding a solution "in house") that is a great bonus.
From my perspective, Virtuemart is a component with amazing potential that is not yet met because functionality is prioritised over user-friendliness, documentation and design (mentioned in order of apportance, at least from my perspective).
Now, I'm not saying that the developer team has made a bad decision. I believe that, in the short to mid term, it was actually a good one if the team is not big enough to be able to cover all those aspects, because if you already have a large enough user base then you expect that a portion of them understand the app itself and are able to overcome problems that come with bad UI and documentation, and also help others in the community.

But it can't stay like that indefinitely.

I've used Virtuemart just a few times over the years when it was absolutely required, but generaly I tried to stay away from projects that include a web shop functionality. And that is just not possible anymore.
I'm a die-hard Joomla user since 2007, over the years I've tested every other major CMS out there, and my experience is that Joomla has the best mix of functionality, security, extendibility and community, with a clear roadmap.

But this year I gave Woocommerce another shot. I still don't like Wordpress and I hope I will not have to use it, but out of the box Woo is just better. I'm not saying it's better in the long run, but it's much easier to be up and running in no time, and that is what matters a lot these days.
Also, I'm not saying VM should see Woo as a general example of how to build a shop component.

I think what I'm trying to say is that right now I see Vm as a component made by experts for experts. If it's like that by choice - fine, but if it's not, then improvements in some areas that are not functionality are overdue.

Look at it this way: just a few years ago it was hard to have a really good website with extended functionality all done by yourself, you just had to hire someone that had some experience in the field of web development.
Now we're in a time where a huge number of people is trying to get their first web shop up and running with as little investment as possible, and a number of different solutions are arising daily to meet that need. None of those solutions are perfect, so those who succeed in the online merchant game will surely look for a sturdier solution for their web shop V.2.0

Virtuemart could be much more appealing to those, as well as a plethora of different types of users, if the "front face" of the app was more up to date an user friendly.
I believe that a huge first step would be to thoroughly redesign the user interface of the app itself, and a great second step would be to offer as much explanation as possible in tooltips of every single option.

I'm sure that the community, myself included, would be more than happy to offer help in redesigning the backend UI, but I don't know how hard would it be to implement that solution. Maybe some of you virtuemart experts could say more about that?

Would you agree that that would be a good first step?

[GJC Web Design]

Have u tried the new interface?

http://virtuemart.net/news/503-release-virtuemart-3-8-8-updated-administrator-interface-template-design

[zheekan]

Have u tried the new interface?

http://virtuemart.net/news/503-release-virtuemart-3-8-8-updated-administrator-interface-template-design

No, I haven't, that's nice, it's a good step forward, if this is not considered a final solution for a longer period of time.

I was aiming more at how the backend UI could be reworked in a sense that the controls/options could be grouped together differently for a more up-to-date, streamlined workflow.
Imagine a UI that is divided in two main categories, one that is seller oriented and one that is developer oriented.
The first one would include only the options that are needed to run the shop: adding and removing products, orders, statistics, marketing tools and all the other options that are there for the person/team that runs the business. That could probably be offered also as a frontend UI.
The other one would be aimed at developers, with all the available options to create and maintain the online shop.
Let's draw a comparison from cars - driver dashboard vs. the engine.
In the backend those two could be offered as two links in the Joomla menu instead of just one: ...  |  Extensions  |  Help  |  Virtuemart  |  Your shop

That would probably be good in a situation when someone hires a developer to build and maintain a shop.

There's probably something to be learned from other systems as well. For instance, I like how Woocommerce takes you through a few configuration steps when you first install it and takes care of the basic shop functionality.
That would be great for people/companies that want to try and create their own web shops themselves and then, if needed, hire someone to add the more complicated funcionalities once they figure out what else they need besides the basic web shop functions.

If you add a clean, curated extensions directory to that, you have a winner.

I know that all of this is a bunch of work, but maybe Virtuemart 4 is somewhere on the horizon? Is there a Vision of what VM4 should be?

[Studio 42]

zheekan, i already wrote a full front end UI, but this is not public available(only for my customers).
I used a bootstrap 3 admin Template and all use ajax and is mobile friendly
Of course this is long to develop and need some extra step to be installed and do not provide all feature.
I added some exclusive feature

Attached some screenshot
Features that you do not find in Virtuemart :
100% ajax loading
Next previous for all edit views
direct email to customer
ajax multi image upload
create a product from a image URL
Full screen image gallery in medias view
direct edit image information in product, category edit
go from category to product, add product in a category
Display any number of languages at same time
For now i do not want to share or sell it.

[zheekan]

@Studio 42

That's nice, but it doesn't really help if you're not willing to share or sell it 
Also, the improved UI and everything else discussed in this topic should probably be an integral part of VM, not an addon.

A question to any of the admins following this topic: Is this something that we should discuss at all, or are we wasting time?
I'm not asking to be provocative, maybe there's a different plan or roadmap that the core VM team is pursuing.

[ermes]

@Studio 42

That's nice, but it doesn't really help if you're not willing to share or sell it 
Also, the improved UI and everything else discussed in this topic should probably be an integral part of VM, not an addon.

A question to any of the admins following this topic: Is this something that we should discuss at all, or are we wasting time?
I'm not asking to be provocative, maybe there's a different plan or roadmap that the core VM team is pursuing.

I totally agree with you

[Studio 42]

@Studio 42

That's nice, but it doesn't really help if you're not willing to share or sell it 
Also, the improved UI and everything else discussed in this topic should probably be an integral part of VM, not an addon.

A question to any of the admins following this topic: Is this something that we should discuss at all, or are we wasting time?
I'm not asking to be provocative, maybe there's a different plan or roadmap that the core VM team is pursuing.

If you follow Joomla logic you can't have another design so I redesigned all the logic, it's why i use own template and component.
The problem is that in this case you can have some trouble(for eg in some cusotomfields plugins) it's why The Vm team cannot rewrite the full logic.
For eg. Why you cannot add directly a new customfield directly in the product ?
Vm is good in front but need really a new complet redesign(and template) and not only some CSS.
For eg. loading all categories is poor in big shops. i Only lad the categories that are in the product and on click i load the list.
So to say, it's not the fault of the team, but of Joomla admin logic and template.
I wrote Joomla admin templates to replace default one, but each time you have some problems because some component do not use core CSS(vm too), it's why i used a front end template and component, so i have no conflit with most components, modules, plugins ... 
So yes my solution is not ideal, but it work fine.
Note that one of my plugin conflict wiht new Virtuemart template, so a new admin template solution is not 100% safe too.

[pinochico]

A question to any of the admins following this topic: Is this something that we should discuss at all, or are we wasting time?

This is the right question

[Studio 42]

You can get my free Joomla admin template https://shop.st42.fr/fr/themes/bs-light-joomla-admin-template.htm
But it does not work anymore with latest joomla releases, but you are free to test and fix it.