Bring Virtuemart back to surface - community help needed

[rdcustom]

...so, let's talk clearly. VM is dying.

We are facing bugs, old plugins, no updated payment methods, bugs that are not fixed, outdated GUI and lack of tools.


Choose any of the competitor platforms... they have all.
Plugins for this and that, payment methods, fast and easy checkout, GDPR, newsletter, abandoned cart etc.

neither google and meta supports VM for their APIs.

but now VM is paid...

should we all migrate and let VM dye?

[Kuubs]

...so, let's talk clearly. VM is dying.

We are facing bugs, old plugins, no updated payment methods, bugs that are not fixed, outdated GUI and lack of tools.


Choose any of the competitor platforms... they have all.
Plugins for this and that, payment methods, fast and easy checkout, GDPR, newsletter, abandoned cart etc.

neither google and meta supports VM for their APIs.

but now VM is paid...

should we all migrate and let VM dye?

Yeah we probably need something to make this grow again. I feel like indeed this thing is growing outdated and outdated. But it's a one man job currently, so what do you expect.

[iWim]

I've looked at the alternatives: I still prefer VMs quirks over those of the alternatives.

Is VirtueMart dying? No. Does it (Max) need help? Absolutely!

I believe VirtueMart can be the choice for e-commerce for everyone to easily use, maintain, build with, and design and develop for.

First Max earns a well deserved summer break.

When he returns well rested he should invite a small group (4-5) of developers who are familiar developing for VM and Joomla and do a(n) (online) mini VM-PBF of sorts.
(3rd party devs here on the forum? Or fresh eyes?)

With 1 question on the agenda:
How can we / VirtueMart harnas the power of Joomla and get it back up to speed?

Frondend, Backend, namespaces, JLayouts, templates, a11y, Atum, com_categories, tags, custom fields, media manager, webasset manager, Inline help, Vanilla JS, etc etc...
The whole shabang!

A clean cut. A major/complete rewrite. Only support J5/6 and ignore B/C for VM (for a second).
Maybe invite some additional devs to help there.
Once it works properly, start working on an upgradepath from the current VM4 to the new VM... 5.

It's a bold move and it may take some time, but I believe it's possible and worth it!

I'm not a dev. So all this is easy for me to say.
Maybe I can help in other places...

[Jumbo!]

With 1 question on the agenda:
How can we / VirtueMart harnas the power of Joomla and get it back up to speed?

Frondend, Backend, namespaces, JLayouts, templates, a11y, Atum, com_categories, tags, custom fields, media manager, webasset manager, Inline help, Vanilla JS, etc etc...
The whole shabang!

A clean cut. A major/complete rewrite. Only support J5/6 and ignore B/C for VM (for a second).
Maybe invite some additional devs to help there.
Once it works properly, start working on an upgradepath from the current VM4 to the new VM... 5.

It's a bold move and it may take some time, but I believe it's possible and worth it!

I completely agree that technology has advanced significantly. However, the entire codebase of Virtuemart is in disarray because we were so concerned about maintaining backward compatibility. It's time to move forward.

Joomla has adopted an entirely different component structure since Joomla 4. It now uses namespaces, PSR-4 autoloader (https://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/), a modern DI container system, a new event dispatcher, and more. Unfortunately, VirtueMart does not utilize any of these. There also needs to be a coding standard. At the very least, it should follow PSR-12 (https://www.php-fig.org/psr/psr-12/). VirtueMart must also move away from jQuery and other JS libraries like Fancybox, jQuery UI, etc. We should leverage the benefits of the core Joomla library instead of reinventing the wheel, which always risks breaking as Joomla moves forward. Joomla has a clear roadmap for Joomla 6, and VirtueMart must follow the same path to stay relevant and progress towards an optimistic future.

It's an ideal time to rewrite the entire VirtueMart component for VirtueMart 5 without worrying about backward compatibility. It must be fully compatible with Joomla 5 and Joomla 6. I have been developing extensions and templates for VirtueMart since 2008 and would love to continue. If given the opportunity, I am prepared to rewrite the core for VirtueMart 5 and replace all JavaScript with vanilla JS. I also recommend using GitHub for easier collaboration and bug tracking.

In the meantime, the development of VirtueMart 4 can continue in parallel to maintain stability and bug-free operation.

I have many more ideas in mind, but I will stop here and look forward to hearing others' opinions, particularly those of Max.

By the way, I believe VirtueMart also needs help maintaining the official VirtueMart websites, including designing infographics and assisting with the overall design.

[hazael]

Joomla 3 should have been killed a long time ago. I don't understand why support this? Stuck in the past, the component risks marginalization and becoming irrelevant. I strongly support the proposal to completely rewrite VirtueMart's code. This would give it a fresh start, free it from the Joomla 3 burden, and open doors to modern solutions and features.

By the way... The online store is not only Paypal and Klarna. There is also no support for very popular parcel locker systems. Without modern support, the customer will choose other online store applications.
The e-commerce market currently offers a wide range of options, and integrating with them would significantly increase VirtueMart's functionality and attractiveness for online stores.

The future of e-commerce belongs to those platforms that can offer online stores the most modern solutions and maximum customer convenience. VirtueMart has a chance to join this group, but only on condition of decisive and courageous actions.

[rdcustom]

...so, let's talk clearly. VM is dying.

We are facing bugs, old plugins, no updated payment methods, bugs that are not fixed, outdated GUI and lack of tools.


Choose any of the competitor platforms... they have all.
Plugins for this and that, payment methods, fast and easy checkout, GDPR, newsletter, abandoned cart etc.

neither google and meta supports VM for their APIs.

but now VM is paid...

should we all migrate and let VM dye?

Yeah we probably need something to make this grow again. I feel like indeed this thing is growing outdated and outdated. But it's a one man job currently, so what do you expect.

As you can see on my posts on the forum, I am available.

Jumbo, that is one of the best developers for VM, is available.

This can't be a one man job

Any CMS is developed by tens of developers.
Max just needs to transfer or refer, and create a developers team!

[hazael]

Phoca support - this chart speaks for itself.

Experience and good history isn't everything. In our country, a small courier company quickly surpassed the long-established state-owned post office. Despite its history and traditions, the post office failed to adapt to changing times. Its outdated practices and lack of innovation led to a decline in both employee morale and customer satisfaction.
 It's similar with virtuemart - focuses on backward compatibility with the old code with which it wants to survive until Joomla 6, where in the end you can retire after that 

[EvanGR]

I have a custom VM installation (with lots of modifications to suit my needs), and it's been working very well through the years.
One of our "obstacles" for growth, was VM's tight dependency on lots of legacy libraries and frameworks, which made it harder to create a modern UI, and provide a fast/minimal frontend with top pagespeed scores.
(We're still on a VM 3.9.x branch btw)

I agree with the sentiments in this thread. Backwards compatibility IS important, because VM cannot compete in the landscape as a fresh product. But it has to become "lighter" on legacy dependencies, and more open to tweaking and deep customization.

Allow the frontend to integrate whatever libraries and frameworks the developer wants, irrespective of the needs of the admin templates (e.g. make it a breeze to be able to switch Tailwind + React in the frontend, instead of jQuery and Bootstrap).

[iWim]

Webshops are complicated. Maybe the most complaced extension for any CMS.
With so many options and settings it is important to make it look and feel comfertable.

In a way VM does succeed in that. VMs backand looks structured and orderly.
However I believe the code and design of the backend and frontend need a major clean up/update.

Since I have more experience in UI, UX and Accessibility than in coding I took the liberty to create a mockup of the Product Edit screen.
This is how I believe the backend of VM can look like in Atum.

No offense to whoever designed VMadmin, but I believe the advantages of using Atum over VMadmin are:
1. Joomla users are familiar with the design, easier transition between Joomla and VirtueMart
2. Updates to Atum are also applied to the VM backend, i.e. darkmode.
3. Accessibility, Atum is constantly reviewed, so VM could be(come) the first accessible webshop software (unchecked). Note: From 2025 every webshop in the EU must be accessible.
4. Dev(s) can concentrate on features

Notes for the mockup:
- The left hand VM menu is designed like, and located at, the left hand J menu position
- The menu items in the left hand VM menu are arranged more logical
- The toolbar is cleaned up
- Search filters are cleaned up and are hidden until you press the Filter Options button, like in Joomla
- Product Edit screen is layed out more logical
- Special fields are replaced by, and work similar to, Joomla Custom Fields
- Cart fields (cart input fields) are now located under the Prices & Cart Options tab
- Related Products/Categories are removed from special fields and located under the Related tab, together with Parent/Child Management
- Images are handled by the Joomla Media manager
- New tabs for Schema, Publishing and Permissions
- New tab for Options* for more flexibility, similar to Joomla

* My idea is to split Configuration into a new configuration for system settings and Options for view/layout/design settings for more flexibility, similar to Joomla.

[EvanGR]

@iWim

Thanks for your contribution. One minor UX annoyance is when the Menu Group name is the same as one of the entries in the menu.
e.g.
Products (menu group)
Products (menu item)

The second could be changed to something like: Products List
Or the first to something like: Product Options/Settings/Management

I believe this is the case with the default VM template as well.

[hazael]

I don't like the solution in which I have everything I don't need - for me it's not UX at all.
Personally, I prefer my menu to be scalable and displayed in a horizontal layout, with the most frequently used items - according to my preferences. Very fast and intuitive.

PS. The new Joomla Menu is a disaster - it couldn't be worse and I think that a lot of people have the same impressions as me. Of course, there is also a group of crazy masochists who say it's great, even though after a year of using Joomla they are still looking for the same target item in this sick menu for a long time..

[iWim]

Thank you both.

Important: I do not work with anybody related to the development of VM. Nor do I represent anybody related to VM or their opinions. The mockups posted here are based on my own personal thoughts and opinions.

@Hazael
Your Quick Icons image shows exactly what I have in mind for VirtueMart Dashboard.
Because products are the most important in a webshop I decided to start creating a mockup for the product edit screen first.

In my biased opinion I believe that my ideas for the left hand VM menu is a major improvement of what VM does currently. With this improvement Administrators should be able to use Joomla's Custom Admin Menu and display only the menus they think are necessary.

@evenGR
Yes, I thought about what to do with the same name for group and menu-item.
In the end I decided to keep it as is.

VM does it, Hika does it, and Joomla does it too (Banners and Contacts).

[AH]

You can create your own VM top menu

Without using plugins - just some CSS and a new admin menu template to be used in "customtop" position.

Of course that would not be as nice as a new base VM menu - but it is infinitely more customiseable

[iWim]

This is an example of how I believe the VirtueMart Dashboard / Controlpanel can look like in Joomla 5/Atum.

[hazael]

Such statistics and other bells and whistles can be ignored. All you need is a website conversion counting system such as Matomo or Analytics...

What bothers me most about Virtuemart is that it does not support tags that I could use to create promotions for products. Currently, I have to create dozens of unnecessary categories to be able to give unique discounts on products assigned to them.
I have over 100 categories and Virtuemart is becoming an increasingly inconvenient component of the online store for normal operation.