Compatibility

[Teejay]

Currently trying to upgrade a J3.10.1 with VM.3.8.8.10472 to J4.0.1, issue is the installation recommendation is to first fix compatibility issue, all the VM components & plugins are supposedly not compatible with the latest version, i tried doing the upgrade on local server, by first deactivating all the identified plugins & components, with a devastating outcome, the site collapse with error 500, is there a way round this

[GJC Web Design]

Why not just wait until J4 is stable .. I would say at least 6 months - there is a reasonable number of J4 extensions available .. and the team here releases a compatible version of VM?

If your still all excited and dead keen on J4 ( J3 will be supported for at least 2 years) try here... http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=142569.msg524591#msg524591

[jenkinhill]

See http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=142569.msg524591#msg524591  for a way to use VM on J4, strictly for test purposes.

It remains to be seen how many current 3rd party VM extension suppliers will provide J4 versions of their addons, but I would not expect these to appear for a few months as we wait for the bugs to be ironed out of J4

I won't consider updating any of my websites (including non-VM sites) until at least J4.1

(GJC just beat me....)

[balai]

It seems to me even greater degradation for that project to try to blame Joomla or finding cheap excuses for that matter.
It's a shame for any serious extension not making any effort to port compatibility for the next major version of the CMS, while there is so much time available.

Joomla 4 beta was released on May 2020, yet not any effort is made to port compatibility with J4.
The argument "I will port compatibility when Joomla is stable enough" is really weak.
When this extension will be tested?
When the extensions related with VM become compatible, given that they need enough time, after VM for J4 is at least in beta phase?
How much tolerance it's users will have on new issues?
How many users will look elsewhere, for alternative solutions that are already compatible with J4 enough time and are greatly tested?
How many developers will abandon the ship, seeing their income constantly decreasing?

But we as a community, have to be straight with the users asking for compatibility with J4.
There is no any compatibility and not any official roadmap for that is announced.
You may found a few scattered posts from the lead dev but nothing specific.

[AH]

Balai

It seems to me even greater degradation for that project to try to blame Joomla or finding cheap excuses for that matter.

Well that is your personal viewpoint.

Shop owners want to sell goods - you can do that today using VM and J3 and will be able to do that on J4 at some point with no upgrade cost from the VM project.  Costs of moving to J4 is not within VM's purview.

Do you have examples of customers wanting to sell goods that demand J4? (because if you have, I feel that they have their business focus in the wrong place!)

Your questions are valid for any major release to the CMS, that requires changes to extensions and possible costs to users and developers - but all your questions should not be limited to VM.

But we as a community, have to be straight with the users asking for compatibility with J4.

Yes be straight - VM WILL be compatible with Joomla 4  - If you are installing J4 on a live site - then you will not have VM 

If you install J3 - VM works

If you have users that want VM now - then I cannot see why you would guide them to J4 in such an early phase of J4's life.

I am certain that VM will have a beta for J4 very soon - as for a roadmap - we could say next week.

Such a date is arbitrary and like J4s many "betas" it could just keep moving - then where would the community be? wasting time and missing opportunities to launch a working store on J3 and get their customers selling goods (their core requirement) 


To quote Joomlas own page:-

"You may also wonder if you have to migrate ASAP? You can take your time, we'll support 3.10 for 2 more years."

So relax and expect a VM beta for J4 soon.

[balai]

AH thanks for the answer but quite none of these respond to my arguments.
Your arguments also miss some important parts of the ecosystem. First it's developers and secondly it's new users.

An extension that is compatible with with a new version of a CMS, will not necessarily used straight away in a production environment.
But:
a) Sends a strong signal to the users that they can invest in that for their foreseeable future.
b) Has the time to get tested and be ready on time, when J4 will be used massively.
c) Gives the developers the opportunity to make their extensions ready on time.

If you want examples of users wanting compatibility with J4, just look at this forum. There are posts daily asking for that (including the post that you and me answer).
Simply there is no room for missed opportunities if it seeks to survive.

[AH]

Balai

It is good that you are still interested in using and furthering VM - I did not mean to undermine your requirements and needs.

I totally agree that being ready for J4 will be seen as an indication of VM's interest in the CMS - and I understand that failure to deliver a working beta will be a poor reflection on the project.

Many Joomla developers have gone and J4 will be the final straw for a raft of others - so lets not limit it just to VM.

The VM project roadmap is a perennial issue - not sure how that gets worked on.

I trust I have not offended you, I just want users to be aware that they are not being abandoned - which can seem the way if you just read the headlines of these threads.

[Milbo]

a) Sends a strong signal to the users that they can invest in that for their foreseeable future.

And? VirtueMart exists since more than 20 years. I am leading the project since more than 12 years. We started to develop for Joomla 3, when we felt it is ready for it. I think no one says that joomla 3 was comparable to j2.5 before the j3.4 version was released. As far as I remember we managed it so, that most plugins had almost nothing todo for it. If your remember the disaster in j3 until it got a mature state with j3.5,... it was a good advice from ourside to wait with it.

b) Has the time to get tested and be ready on time, when J4 will be used massively.

Yes to test your 3rd party extension. But as I said, it was always enough time. In special because the core solved a lot problems also for the extension developers.

c) Gives the developers the opportunity to make their extensions ready on time.

Same argument. The changes for normal plugins are minimal, if you already rely on the VM Framework. Otherwise it is also not a lot todo, because most problems are easy to solve, if you know how to. But there are some problems, making me crazy. The whole dispatcher thing is a big mess and the Table implements,.. we solved it by a bit luck.

If you want examples of users wanting compatibility with J4, just look at this forum. There are posts daily asking for that (including the post that you and me answer).
Simply there is no room for missed opportunities if it seeks to survive.

Look, I wrote about that in the forum very clear. No need to repeat myself. Actually I started the first work on joomla 4 this spring. And actually, we are almost done with the first beta.


But now comes the real point. Where is YOUR ENGAGEMENT? Who did the work so far? stAn of Rupostel wrote a plugin. So he pushed the development heavily with real help! He provided some solutions and if he did not find a solution, he just wrote hardcore overrides. This overrides again helped me to find a solution for the core.

I dont know much time he invested already, but just changing all triggers to proxy function and changing the db getErrorMsg to try catch took me days. All the adjustments took weeks already. So where is your investment, your help in the project? A project lives by the members, not people who use it and blame that nothing goes on.

And last but not least
Ask not what your team can do for you; ask what you can do for your team!

(after JFK)