Separate settings for price display for products and cart

[Rune Rasmussen]

In configuration we can choose price display, which is nice.

But there's a big problem with this, as the same setting is applied to both products and cart/order.

Let's imagine someone don't want to display both the tax and price ex tax on products, which is perfectly fine in several countries, but they still need to display the tax value and amount in cart and on orders (sales docs) - but changing the setting today hides it in both places.

Therefore the settings need to be duplicated, one section for products, and one separate for the cart/order.

Now you could say we can modify and override /sublayout/prices.php instead, and we do today, but that's not the point. The point is that those settings should make sense, and have a real useful value for the store owners. I also know that several stores has changed this setting to hide the price values on products, but have forgotten to check the cart, and thus their cart and order docs doesn't comply with the local tax regulations.

[AH]

but that's not the point

Well at the moment that is the point - and it is very easy for templaters and developers to modify to meet specific needs

Yes it might e more helpful to have massive amounts of configuration to support all sorts of options - but making configurations production ready takes a very large amount of time  so if you wnat to help - considering submitting a patch and/or support the project

http://virtuemart.net/community/support-the-project

[Rune Rasmussen]

I support the project with testing, translation and locale support (not many left to support though...!), has done it for years. So I support it more than most, don't jump on conclusions so damn quick.

Your reply is unneeded, and helps none. Read what I wrote, ask for more info if you don't understand it, and avoid replying if you has nothing else to add. 

This is a repeating issue, causing some unneeded support, as you should know: http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=130547.0

[Milbo]

Rune, Andy just gives the answer, I gave the last years.

In fact I am thinking about since around 6 months to add a config option, to switch between the tax in the column and/or tax row.

[AH]

and avoid replying if you has nothing else to add

Oh, but I do have things to add ! 

It is good that you support the project and I trust that, if you have not already done so, you will consider signing up for a membership and help the team (that i am not part of) progress this great solution further and who knows, maybe some additional configuration options might get scheduled.

Your reply is unneeded, and helps none.

I beg to differ! - it helps identify that configuration costs time and that this time has to be scheduled by the team. 

In addition it helps point out that there are ways of supporting the project for such suggestions - one of which is to provide the patch for review and secondly to fund such a change.  I would be remiss in failing to help others see that there are alternatives to just suggesting and moaning!

You sought to undermine the usefulness of the override capability that you then describe, by asking for more configuration that you neither give as a patch or suggest in the development forum.

"But there's a big problem with this" your opening gambit - In your opinion it is a "big" problem - in my opinion it is a simple override. That is what overrides are for.

but have forgotten to check the cart, and thus their cart and order docs doesn't comply with the local tax regulations

In many instances a cart and invoice override are utilised to comply with local regulations, as you should know - seeing that you do locale support.

Forgetting to check the system functionality, especially the customer facing elements, is down to poor technical processes and testing - My helpful advice is that, as a professional, you should create full test plans and scripts and mitigate against such events occuring.

[Rune Rasmussen]

Forget about it, more we try to make a different, more it becomes clear that VM is the wrong cart to use and support. Will probably start working on making that come to an end faster, as this is such a narrowed and unfriendly buggy environment...

Btw!

My helpful advice is that, as a professional, you should create full test plans and scripts and mitigate against such events occuring.

This is where you fails big time in the thinking. Changing this into a cart for developers and designers, professionals, when it was for the users and store owners - and unprofessionals is probably still the biggest group of users. It should be pretty clear it was the store owners I talked about, not me, nor other making customized carts. And still, the config is open for the store owner to change no-matter what...

[Milbo]

"But there's a big problem with this" your opening gambit - In your opinion it is a "big" problem - in my opinion it is a simple override. That is what overrides are for.

100% correct.

Changing this into a cart for developers and designers, professionals, when it was for the users and store owners - and unprofessionals is probably still the biggest group of users. It should be pretty clear it was the store owners I talked about, not me, nor other making customized carts. And still, the config is open for the store owner to change no-matter what...

It was always a cart for professionals. Take vm1.1 and compare with vm3, you will notice that vm3 has already a lot more options and differentiations.

and as Hutson already point out. It costs a silver membership to add your wish. If it is not worth the 100 euro, then it can not be important.

[AH]

I am aghast - 

Everything in the world should be for free? - when people are asked to fund something they get so defensive.

I trust your "customers" also get everything you do for free and if they do not - then ask yourself why you should expect such things from others.

I have a gold membership - do I need it? - no

But I benefit from using VM - IMHO the best cart for my purpose by a long way!!

And after looking at the debacle that is  Magento - I am very pleased with my decision!!!

[Rune Rasmussen]

VM as of today is so buggy that it cost to much time and money to keep it running as it is, so no, it's not worth paying anything extra at all. Just to fix something that is close to being stupidity caused by not knowing anything about running a business/store in the real world, spiced up with ignorance and/or stubborn thinking. Sorry, but it's true.

Anyhow, thanks for confirming about the environment - and that it's not for store owners, but professionals only. Good to get that straight at least.

Edit! I don't have any problem paying for custom work, if required. I also pay for each use on several designs/extensions, for different systems, to support the work. In this case it was a suggestion for a improvement, where you got of topic directly, because you're out of money or something?! Btw! Last time I asked Max for a quote on custom work, he had no time, since he had to fix bugs - well the bugs are still there months later.

[AH]

Anyhow, thanks for confirming about the environment - and that it's not for store owners, but professionals only.

What the hell do you think a store owner is, an amateur??

because you're out of money or something

I have a gold membership - do I need it? - no

You fail to read even the basic parts of my reply - I do not get any money from the project, yet still I paid to support it as a gesture of goodwill - you making a small donation does not put a penny in my pocket.

VM as of today is so buggy that it cost to much time and money to keep it running as it is, so no, it's not worth paying anything extra at all. Just to fix something that is close to being stupidity caused by not knowing anything about running a business/store in the real world, spiced up with ignorance and/or stubborn thinking. Sorry, but it's true.

You may have overstated the extent of any bugs there are - and your original post was a suggestion not a bug !

Guys like you make me laugh - you fix one problem and then think the world owes you something.  If you replace a fuse to fix the headlights, you talk as though you designed and built the damn car!  Get over yourself!

The team do a fantastic job and VM3 is a superb e-commerce platform that is both configurable, flexible and extensible at minimum cost.

In fact I am thinking about since around 6 months to add a config option, to switch between the tax in the column and/or tax row.

And max has even thought about it -   

[Rune Rasmussen]

He/She is a store owner obviously, and yes, indeed often a amateur shop owner too... Not a professional developer, designer or even a big professional company. Still they normally has access to change the configuration (partly because of limited ACL support), and then also changing this price display, which doesn't make sense at all as it's functioning today.

You seems to reply to most here as they where professional developers/designers, in a go figure it out yourself way. But they surely isn't, as many follow ups shows.

What I wonder about is who the hell you think you are, if we should fall into your way of expressing it... and if you have access to who is paying and contributing in other ways, whitout beeing involved in the business or project, that's for sure odd and something to worry about. Your writing indicates you do, when you quite directly asks people to pay or shut the hell up in your very first reply...

Guys like you make me laugh - you fix one problem and then think the world owes you something.  If you replace a fuse to fix the headlights, you talk as though you designed and built the damn car!  Get over yourself!

This is just true in your own imagination, telling quite much about you and this "community", when you're posting as a global mod.

Anyhow it's indeed great to hear that doing free translations, making free modules and giving support isn't considered to be helping the project. That surely makes things clear for a lot of people, who did believe they was contributing. @Max, you should remove the free translations etc, and prepare those for being commershitpilled too asap... At the same time you should make it clearly on the site, that this is GPL, but intended for professional developers only. And also that all need to pay at least a Silver membership before they even consider to suggest anything, or fill a bug report.

your original post was a suggestion

Exactly, it was a suggestion. Not a demand, nor was it a commercial request. Glad you figured it out in the end.

[AH]

You seems to reply to most here as they where professional developers/designers, in a go figure it out yourself way. But they surely isn't, as many follow ups shows.

I hope my posts are not a "go figure it out yourself" rather they are sometimes the solution and sometime they ask the poster to take a deeper look and use forum - thus helping them possibly resolve their own future questions without adding a new post.

What I wonder about is who the hell you think you are, if we should fall into your way of expressing it...and if you have access to who is paying and contributing in other ways, whitout beeing involved in the business or project, that's for sure odd and something to worry about. Your writing indicates you do, when you quite directly asks people to pay or shut the hell up in your very first reply...

No, I do not make a cent from this VM project or help I give in the forums

As you are aware, with all the free stuff you provide, we cannot monetise everything we do.

I do not consider this odd or something to be worried about - I use VM and provide help testing and support where i can.

[Rune Rasmussen]

If you have access to the info about who is paying or not without being involved in the business, then there is something to worry about indeed. And if you don't have that info, stop assuming and posting as you do. Anyhow you has failed to understand the basics here.

[AH]

You had a problem.

You suggested additions to the core configuration that would meet your needs.

You presented a current solution using an override, that did not suit your needs.

I noted that such configuration options are potentially time consuming and complex.

I suggested that you could submit a patch or (shame on me) pay for this change.

I understand the basics.

I think configuration options are a good idea - but there are many good ideas out there.

I have therefore moved this post to the appropriate area and closed it.