What is the future of VM?

[kratzi]

Hi all,

I think I am not the right person to complain as I am just pretty much a total noob when it comes to programing. I am happy that I can handle some CSS and html to design a template and the Virtuemart shop but when it comes to PHP and all this I see my advantages in another place. Therfore I am not really the right person to help people here in this forum so also shouldnt be complaining due to no input.

BUT

Even though I really appreciate people spending their free time in developing open source programs like  Virtuemart I see problems for the future of VM.

For interest I counted the last month of questions (but left today and yesterday out as no one can expect to receive an answer straight away). In "General Questions VM2" approxiamtely 300 questions were asked in the last 30 days and 104 questions had 0 !!zero!! replies. One can asume around 20% of these 300 questions are really easy questions of people who didn't search the forum and asked straight away. In the end one can be happy if 40% of questions are answered and I guess that just 10% of all questions really lead to success of the questioner.

In addition the team of VM wants to earn some money by selling extensions. But how can you try to sell extensions for a product which can not be used as it is not ready. There is a bunch of issues in the front-end which are not solved and every customer would think "!&%$§'!" as it is not user friendly. Its a good idea though that they want to earny some money and they should however first finish the core program please.

As I said I am really not the right person to complain and I think VM has great programers however I also think they should sit down with some marketing and business people that have a better understanding of the customers needs.

My question is! How can a product survive with nearly no support.

Please do not see this post as an assault but a constructive input.

Cheers

[ivus]

Hi kratzi,

I've just recently gotten back into VM after the release of version 2 and I quite prefer version 2 over version 1.

I'm assuming you've jumped straight into VM2 and gone wow... it's not finished? But you need to realise that VM1 went through the exact same process of development. It was buggy at the start, but through user input it got better and finally became an all-round stable product. VM2 is still in it's infancy.

I think you're too quick to judge the value of VM2. This software isn't about making money for the developers, it's about making money for you. It's interesting you say this:

In addition the team of VM wants to earn some money by selling extensions.

where did that come from? what evidence to you have to support this claim? Did you know that there are only a handful of developers working on the core code? around 18 or so. That's it. The rest of the "VM team" you speak about are merely users of this forum who have been given higher statuses to help with the day-to-day running of this forum.

Here's a question I pose to you :  would you pay for support? so you're thinking "why would I pay for support when the product is free". So what would happen if VM was no longer free? VM staffers could earn some decent money and then maybe take your advice:

I also think they should sit down with some marketing and business people that have a better understanding of the customers needs

I don't speak for or on behalf of the VM team, but I'm pretty sure the developers who have committed their time and efforts to providing you with a free and simple to use product are beginning to tire of this sort of negativity. I certainly am.

In regards to this comment you made:

In "General Questions VM2" approxiamtely 300 questions were asked in the last 30 days and 104 questions had 0 !!zero!! replies

This is a user based forum and if 80% of users here are noobs, of course that's what's going to happen. You can't help each other if you're all in the same boat.
I've noticed a lot of NEW users making up the excuse "oh I've spent countless hours searching, but couldn't find...". I try to helps as many people as I can (I am neither a VM team member, nor a site moderator) but what I find is a lot of people lack the initiative to learn, they would rather just be given the final solution than a helping hand. BUT the thing that surprises me the most (and I'm not sure about the statistics on this), is that there are a lot of people on this forum trying to customise their site who really have no idea what they're doing. They've dug themselves a big hole in taking on the job and then use this forum to dig themselves out of it. A fundamental knowledge of HTML and CSS is not enough to customise a web-application. I see peoples posts, including yours stating that they aren't programmers or don't have strong PHP or jQuery skills... so perhaps this piece of software isn't for you. There's hundred out there all you need to do is match the right software for your needs.

and finally we get to the question:

My question is! How can a product survive with nearly no support.

There is support. Counting the number of replies again the number of posts means absolutely nothing. Making assumptions about the validity of the questions posted is asinine. How about you actually read the posts and see what it's about before making such assumptions. I open every post and read the questions and if I can help I do so. I racked up about 100 replies to questions in 4 days... and most my answers were copy-paste from other responses I made purely because people don't search, people don't read the sticky posts... and then they expect their questions to be of utmost importance. I've noticed a lot of question posted here are also Joomla! core related issues and has nothing to do with VM whatsoever. Did you account for that in your statistical calculations?

So to summarise. Everyone's here because they need help. Help each other out when you can and play nice.

[kratzi]

Hi ivus,

sorry I am answering that late however I didn't expect anyone to write that much to my post so I do appreciate your answer a lot and think it's just fair if I answer to your words.

I might be totally wrong however I don't see a big chance that anyone of the VM team is programing a free product without having any benefit of it in mind. If you look on the extensions website
http://extensions.virtuemart.net/vendor/virtuemart-extensions you will find a description that the core members found a company. I am sorry but every company in this world intends to earn money. If you just want to make something good to others you can create an association. Please tell me a country that would be happy and allow a company making just loss over years. In the end it means they have the intention to make profit.

You were also asking if I would be willing to pay for support. 110% I would pay for good support. You were right in your post I jumped straight into VM2. I informed myself about some e-commerce projects and thought VM would be very interesting for me. I must admit I would not have the money to get a perfect magento site done. Also a big reason why I am doing the site on my own is to be able to modify little things in the future if something needs to be done and not to be dependent on others. Due to the fact that I want my online-shop to be really safe for my customers I have a problem with getting support from someone in the world that is saying he can fix my problem and I dont know and therefor can't rely on. How can I know that help which I get is not putting some code on my site which will make harm to my cusomters. Therefore for sure if the VM team which I would trust would give support by paying I would use it to get a perfect site. But as they don't I need to rely on answer on this forums which are very slow in my point of view.

According to your post that arround 80% are noobs you might be right and this might be the reason why it is really kind of frustrating to wait for help in this forum. I have another hobby with vintage cars. In the other forum connected to my hobby you really have a community and get support. You can even post totally strange questions and some people will find a solution. Maybe I am used to that level of support and see a big difference to here.
In contrary I see it here and maybe 100/300 not answered posts is really no evidence but I strongly think it shows a direction.


Simon

[diana8760]

Simon, I have to disagree with you.  I am a web designer who is new to both Joomla and VirtueMart.  I am used to coding my own sites and this  Joomla/VM thing is a whole new world for me.  I have had some challenges with VM, but I have been able to find helpful answers in this forum.  If you know how to search for what you're looking for, or if you can state your problem in clear and concise terms, you can get the answers you're looking for.  When you were perusing user questions did you notice how many did not give basic information such as what version of Joomla and what version of VM the user is using?  The moderators have stated that this information is essential in giving help, yet many users simply ignore it, or don't bother to read the simple forum instructions before posting.

As for paid support--it's certainly available if you're willing to pay for it.  They have a forum thread where you can ask for it.  There are many websites out there that will sell you support.  They would not be in business very long if they were doing unethical things to the client sites they worked on.  Do your homework--search them out and find someone that you think is worthy of your trust.  I did that myself last night before I went to bed.  By morning I had six different companies to choose from.  I contacted two of them and got very prompt replies.  In the end I found the answer to my problem myself so their help was not needed, but the offers were greatly appreciated.