Is Virtuemart 2 simply broken???

[Merry]

There *is* a lack of documentation, I see that problem and I am working on it as fast as I can. But I am only one volunteer, and I can only write so fast.

To me the other big problem is, VM1 was around for a long time, and so there is a ton of documentation on that, as well as tons of forum discussion. This makes for a lot of "noise" that newbies have a difficult time sorting through... what applies to everything, what applies to the new program with a few exceptions, and what only applies to the new version?

I hope in a month that there will be a lot less confusion caused by lack of documentation or so much documentation on the old program. But please remember that the programmers are volunteers, the moderators are volunteers, and the documentation writer is also a volunteer - we have to work at day jobs to support our volunteer habit.

Merry

[daviator]

Merry,
Besides offers of cash, I also volunteered to write documentation (in the areas in which I was having trouble) in exchange for help with solving my issues. And yes, I have professional experience in technical writing. But like most of my other inquires, the off was simply ignored.

David

[terp]

... look at half of the online demos, using joola 2.5 and vm2.0.2 the add to cart buttons doest work because all of the extra jquery code.

I noticed this and it made me pause —if the demo doesn't work, what is in *store* for me, a rookie VM user.

[jenkinhill]

terp, there is a learning curve with Joomla and with VirtueMart, but nothing really insurmountable for people willing to spend some time. For working VM2 (not a demo) stores have a look at http://www.chciletat.cz/eshop or http://www.hrackyfido.cz/ or http://www.lawweapons.org

And there are some template developers out there with products if you want a layout package. eg see this demo: http://www.linelab.org/virtuemart-templates/index.php/virtuemart-2-example

[Dick_K]

Is it a sinking ship?

Yes it is !!!!  .... I have changed my clients to Hikashop ... The last one was running VM since 2007 - even then it was a big headache to setup and the support has not improved....

[terp]

Is it a sinking ship?

Yes it is !!!!  .... I have changed my clients to Hikashop ... The last one was running VM since 2007 - even then it was a big headache to setup and the support has not improved....

That was next on my list.

Since their demo has modules on every page, I was unable to tell from just looking around whether or not it calls all the JS/CSS needed to compile on ALL pages, or just the pages where it's needed with Hikashop-related content.  You have a site I could peek at using it, sir?

I plan to download it next.  Setting up shipping parameters and overrides hasn't been fun this morning...who would have thunk you have to assign yourself as a vendor to set the currency. ...so reminded of CommunityBuilder back in the days.

...but I am still plucking away. Pretty powerful little component with a bazillion settings, so I understand much of this is the nature of the beast.

[Milbo]

Daviator, and jakobe it is true, that

VM1 and VM2, there is no difference, is not for people who think template overrides or changing the css is a hack. The joomla world is written for people who either can template or pay for it. The most questions you asked me are template related. You have the same problem in all other components, not only in virtuemart. When you want a shop in which you can the red button to a green one, okey. I can almost promise you that the virtuemart Core will never provide that. Because it is the task of the templaters. Buy the joomlaart template for virtuemart 2 and you do not have this problems. And the joomlaart template provide what you want.  This is nothing unusual for the joomla world to buy templates and adjust them with template overrides. But yes it may be absolutly uncommon compared to standalone systems. Virtuemart is either for joomla people who already familar with the joomla system or for people who want something special with their store, what they cant do with the other stores. There are other people creating complete packages with joomla+vm2+template(+hosting).

I know that even magento users consider to use virtuemart 2, because it is much easier to extend it to their needs.

[Bruce Morgan]

I hate to keep harping on this but I think the development team in a little bit in denial about the quantum leap in difficulty involved for average non-programmer users to adjust from VM 1.1 to 2.0.  I think you may be reaching a tipping point where the defections to other platforms may become rampant.  That would be unfortunate for the developers and users alike.

I think "average" users like myself want to be able to maintain and perform small customizations without outside help.  Starting with php shop I have been able to manage 90% of the updates and migrations without outside help until now.  I have and will continue to use professional help, but the amount of extra work needed to make this latest migration is just scary and makes the new version look like a huge strategic blunder.  I have a working site that I am mostly satisfied with but it will become obsolete in time and when i feel i need to update or change I will go elsewhere unless there is pretty strong evidence that I can make VM work without spending a fortune.

One last thing.  I have a fine template and migrating a test site from 1.5.25 to J 2.5.x was fairly easy.  Alll of my prblems have revolved around simply trying to replicate the shopping cart portion on the new VM2.0.  That SHOULD be easy.  I understand that re-designing my site or adding lots of new features migh be difficult but that is not what I want.  I think others feel the same way.  Comparing VM to Magento is nuts.  Everyone knows Magento is hard to learn and use.  This lates version make you more like Magento than before.  Is that the direction you want to go?  As I have said beofee, you get too many defection and VM will become irrelevant.  Kind of like what Yahoo became once Google arrived on the scene.

[daviator]

I am one of those defectors. I have switched my client to Zen-Cart  and both of us could not be happier. In just 2 days I was able to overcome the obstacles that I was unable to solve in VM2 after two weeks. In addition, I was able to to find free mods that worked far better than the paid ones I wasted money on for VM2. Not only were more of the mods free, the forums are far friendlier.

I have not needed to spend a dime on plugins or mods for the zen cart site (but once launched, I will donate to the ones I used, including zen-cart).

[Dansterpower]

Zen Cart is not a Joomla Component. No thanks. Virtuemart has a learning curve but does work if you stay with it.

[daviator]

Zen Cart is not a Joomla Component. No thanks. Virtuemart has a learning curve but does work if you stay with it.

Exactly. Why add another lever of complexity and possible security issues when Joomla + Virtuemart? What forced me to try VM2 was my client's hosting only supported Joomla 2.5. With Zen Cart, I have ONE app to deal with it and not many layers of PHP, CSS and security.

Also, I was able to figure out VM1 no problem. It just worked. While not a guru, I am fairly experienced in web development including Joomla, Wordpress, PHP and CSS but VM2 just doesn't work correctly. Look around these forums and you'll see many others who have come to the same conclusion.

Was Zen Cart my best option? Who knows, but it worked for me and my client, with $0 cost for the add-ons that would have cost me $300+ to get the same functionality in VM2, and I got it up and running in a fraction of the time. Zen Cart does require more hands on with the PHP files and FTP access and the standard template is ugly but it simply works and in the long run that is a huge time saver. 

[Studio 42]

If you have to change PHP codes in another system, it's exactly the same problems.
The question is only a equation of time,money and logic.
Each week we add more future possibility to virtuemart2.0. Perhasp your need is not exactly possible but a solution is always possible or come in next releases.
Many other solution must simply hacked/ forcked to add you needs.
The line of virtuemart is to provide a freely extendable system handle alll specific needs in the future without hacking or forking it, but not to provide a 100 Mo Pack for nothing.

[daviator]

When I said Zen-cart requires more hands on with the PHP files I simply meant that you have to upload many of them manually via FTP for plugins. It's not that I have to edit them to make them function. Worse case is I have to copy lines from one file to another but that is usually well documented.

So far, Zencart and it's plugins have worked as described 100%. I cannot say the same for Virtuemart or the plugin I purchased along with it.

[madabyss]

Completely agree with the pack here. I've been implementing VM1 w/ Joomla! for sometime now and although there was always things that needed adjusting. No big deal... But then... Along came VM2 and I am in a world pain. NOTHING REALLY SEEMS TO WORK. Seemed to work okay in a development environment but now I've got it running in a production environment with hundreds of products and customers and WOW am I screwed. I've been running around tirelessly for three weeks trying to stop the leaks as they are found but still having massive issues. Sorry VirtueMart but this is the last install I'll be doing.

I'll be starting a new collaboration with other Joomla! developers to create a new open source ecommerce system that works. If you're interested PM. I could use the help.

[bytelord]

Hello madabyss,

Why you did not help vm becoming better by offering your dev skills for free as vm offers it?
There a lot of vm users that running successfully big shops with vm2.
Last "nothing really seems to work" i don't thing that is true.

Regards