Hi at all,
I like to sell downloadable products with VM 2.0, it´s a software my husband wrote.
I only can find a manual for VM 1.1 and there is a description how to enable the download-feature.
But in version 2.0 I can´t find it.
I found this thread: http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=94661.msg321259#msg321259
But I´m not sure, the download-feature does not exist in the new version 2.0 ??
Best regards
Same question :(
Who can help?
Joël
If you look on the release notes, you will find this:
Quote- media is now handling downloadables ( free download) and also files for sale in another directory then joomla, but uses thumbs in the joomla directory. This is extendable by a plugin. We are in the last testphase of it.
Sounds do-able, however I couldnt give you the steps required as I have only ever user Virtuemart for physical items. Also, it seems like by the next Release Candidate there will be a full and stable version of the download script/plugin. There is some noise of another Beta being released today, so keep your eyes peeled :)
Liam
Here take a look on this one http://virtuemart.cloudaccess.net/extensions-virtuemart-2/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail written by the coreteam. It is not with all feature we all wish, but it does what it says.
So the downloadable media for sale will not be a virtuemart "core" feature? i will have to pay for having that feature?
Yes. There are already other plugins for virtual goods in the pipe done by other developers. So instead of having one integrated possibility, you will have soon the choice between different plugins handling completly different solutions.
For example, with a link, with a stream, time based limited, hit limited, directly sent by email, connected to release systems (like ARS) and so on.
It is also clearly a feature which is not need by the majority of virtuemart users.
Yes i understand.. Infact im waiting before upgrade to WM2. seems not so stable and some features missing. But for now version 1.x is great, and support downloadable goods. Hope some simple solutions like the previous VM will be free.
Quite disapointing that this simple item that has been in VM for a while has been dropped.
While i like the idea of enhanced developement, getting a basic downloader module for an open-source product at 35 euro is pretty steep.
I just came back to VM because jshopping was withdrawn and VM now works on J2.5, but alas, the biggest reason for me setting this up is for basic downloadable/purchasable files.
There was a reason this was in earlier versions, because people asked for it and used it, now its been dropped and the function is now lost to people who will charge for this 'feature'.
Not happy.
Quote from: rexel99 on February 26, 2012, 00:10:43 AM
While i like the idea of enhanced developement, getting a basic downloader module for an open-source product at 35 euro is pretty steep.
This is something that the majority of VM users do not need, so is not included in the core. People installing VirtueMart are either developers who will be getting paid by their client or shop owners who are developing a store to make money. And as anyone in business will tell you, you need to spend before you start getting a return on your invesment.
Everyone involved in VirtueMart development is a volunteer, freely giving up their time to the project. So who pays for the site hosting, bandwidth etc? Hosting adverts on the site is not sufficient as most web savvy people are resistant to these. Having a partial business model is a good way of being able to maintain a free of charge stable and usable VM core while ensuring that the project can continue to pay its bills.
And we do not mention at the moment, that these plugins will be developed further and you get free updates.
ok ok, I understand that I have to pay for the plugin maybe. I understand if it´s really not used by most users from VM.
But I don´t understand the last sentence from Milbo. Why should I pay for the plugin when it maybe will be not developed further??
I understand the wish for pay by the project, but then I like to have the insurance that this will be developed, could you understand?
Milbo said:
"And we do not mention at the moment, that these plugins will be developed further and you get free updates."
Clear to me that there will be further development, but this has not been mentioned so far on the store site.
Quote from: Milbo on February 24, 2012, 19:02:22 PM
Yes. There are already other plugins for virtual goods in the pipe done by other developers. So instead of having one integrated possibility, you will have soon the choice between different plugins handling completly different solutions.
For example, with a link, with a stream, time based limited, hit limited, directly sent by email, connected to release systems (like ARS) and so on.
It is also clearly a feature which is not need by the majority of virtuemart users.
I'm very sorry to hear from you that this feature is not needed bey the majority of virtuemart users!!
Well, I believe that most of the sites does not sell downloadable products. On the other hand, I think that by ignoring the needs of the rest of us (and believe me, we are not 3-4% of total virtuemart users), you are admitting that you failed in that area!!!
At least, can you suggest an extension which will help me to deal with downloadable products through Virtuemart??
I'm that close to lose a 20.000$, deal because of the VM downloadable products dropdown!!!
And to be more specific, I spent the last 6 months in learning and testing virtuemart capabilities, in order to participate in a project, which deals with downloadable products.
Now that VM 2 is released without that feature...what can I do???
I don't say that I am not ready to pay for that feature!
But who is selling this extension? Can anybody help me?
At least someone who doesn't believe that this feature is not needed by most of Virtuemart users...!
The extension was written by Electrocity, one of the core VirtueMart developers.
It is on the official VirtueMart Extensions site. http://virtuemart.cloudaccess.net/extensions-virtuemart-2/shipments/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail
Quote from: jenkinhill on March 01, 2012, 15:11:56 PM
The extension was written by Electrocity, one of the core VirtueMart developers.
It is on the official VirtueMart Extensions site. http://virtuemart.cloudaccess.net/extensions-virtuemart-2/shipments/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail
Thank you for your response!
I suppose that there is no answer on tha question about why downloadables were available in VM 2 beta 3 and they aren't in the final release...
Check this:
http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=96611.msg323054#msg323054
Downloadables are stuff you can download. Downloadables are still implemented, this is for manuals, drivers, free extra stuff. File for sale /virtual goods are products to sell them per download.
Very Disapointing VM .. Waiting around for so long with the premise that Downloads Section is being worked on then passing them of to third party developers
You should be leading the field ... Video .. Audio preview options from all social sites (Vimeo, Youtube etc etc) ... Downloadable streams Local & External ... etc etc
Maybe you should ask your customer base whats needed ... Next Time Very dissapointed
I dont mind paying for whats needed ... but you have turned off a lot of potential customers by not keeping up to date with trends needed in a modern Shopping cart
???
Rolling spider, I think you do not understand the possibilities already there. You can use joomla plugins for this already.
Really, really, what I really hate are people using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man arguments. I think you know 5% of vm2, but you think you can judge about it? I know we are missing this or that. We cant have 700 extensions (which also often not for free) like vm1.1 or other shopping carts already long time out there. But saying that we miss things which are quite obviously already there is just lame.
As I explained before. Dont mix "downloadable files" with "virtual goods", which can be shipped via download. Downloadable files already work. An example is in our store, there are now pdf manuals to download.
Quote from: Milbo on March 02, 2012, 16:58:31 PM
???
Rolling spider, I think you do not understand the possibilities already there. You can use joomla plugins for this already.
Really, really, what I really hate are people using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man arguments. I think you know 5% of vm2, but you think you can judge about it? I know we are missing this or that. We cant have 700 extensions (which also often not for free) like vm1.1 or other shopping carts already long time out there. But saying that we miss things which are quite obviously already there is just lame.
As I explained before. Dont mix "downloadable files" with "virtual goods", which can be shipped via download. Downloadable files already work. An example is in our store, there are now pdf manuals to download.
OK, maybe I described my needs in a wrong way. My english aren't very good - I have to admit that.
I just want to be able to sell software via VM2. I want my customers to be able to pay for a software and then download it, and then to get an activation code (by an e-mail, perhaps). Is that possible, or do I have to pay for an extension?
Or maybe should I wait for the VM 2.1?
Please, give me a specific answer to that! It's very important!
For this you must buy the extension. But RollingSpider said "Video .. Audio preview options from all social sites (Vimeo, Youtube etc etc) ... " which is already working with the right joomla plugin.
Also vm1.1 missed a lot features, people bought almost always, which are now free in vm2. For example the pdf invoicing, which is now in the core.
Interesting discussion topic.
I completely understand why downloadable sales has been dropped off from Virtuemart in VM2.
If I got the point of the new VM2, any particularities have been dropped off from the oficial release, and will be incorporated as plugins. So many new developers can contribute to extend funcionalities on VM, while the core is kept light and "stable", and VM developers can focus their efforts on improving the core.
Downloadable sales seems to be a particularity not used by everyone. ok. we can agree. we cannot claim on VM developers for that, as this is a community work not directly rewarded.
So, now the market is open to providers of a plugin that allows selling downloadable goods. So far, we know http://virtuemart.cloudaccess.net/extensions-virtuemart-2/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail .
But before buying it, I would like to see how it works. Do you know any demo site? Of course, if this convinces me, I will buy it if I believe this will be useful for my business idea. If my business idea is not able to reward me the 35$ investment, then it's maybe time to change idea. (in line with jenkinhill comment).
And, by the way, do you know any other plugin available in the market that allows selling downloadable goods, to compare?
thanks.
Is there an alternative to the virtual goods plugin offered by Electrocity? It requires customers to get an email with a link to be able to download the goods purchased. That is an archaic methodology. Do we have to go back to the days of constant customer support issues because of email spam filters (customers never add the store to their address books like we tell them - I don't). With this method, how do I limit the number of downloads per customer? I didn't see that as a parameter in their (very limited) documentation. It also requires customers to give an email address which defeats the whole purpose of allowing customers to buy without registering. And for almost $50 dollars US, why can't I see a demo? Seems like a pretty sloppy operation; why should I trust them to make a good product - oh yeah: because I have no choice!
I know what you said above about you all being volunteers and who is going to pay for the infrastructure, but you run ads on your site. Is Electrocity really just the VM team? If not, how does that help with your infrastructure cost?
I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude, but it seems that this approach was not very well thought out. Coming out with a new version and taking features away that many, although possibly not the majority, of your customer base rely on is not a good practice. If I have to start paying for features that I need to use your product perhaps I would better off switching to a paid component that is at least up front about what they are doing.
Your caviler attitude towards your customer base may very well spell the death of Virtuemart. Most of the people who are selling virtual goods are the very developers that are using your product to do sites for their customers. Alienate us at your peril.
Jerry
Quote from: jenkinhill on February 26, 2012, 10:56:01 AM
Quote from: rexel99 on February 26, 2012, 00:10:43 AM
While i like the idea of enhanced developement, getting a basic downloader module for an open-source product at 35 euro is pretty steep.
This is something that the majority of VM users do not need, so is not included in the core. People installing VirtueMart are either developers who will be getting paid by their client or shop owners who are developing a store to make money. And as anyone in business will tell you, you need to spend before you start getting a return on your invesment.
Everyone involved in VirtueMart development is a volunteer, freely giving up their time to the project. So who pays for the site hosting, bandwidth etc? Hosting adverts on the site is not sufficient as most web savvy people are resistant to these. Having a partial business model is a good way of being able to maintain a free of charge stable and usable VM core while ensuring that the project can continue to pay its bills.
hm hm hm...
nice position here to your answers. crying out and falling to a very low level to my view. I cannot imagine the Joomla team come out one day on the forums and say,, aaaaaah well you know guys, we got to make some money now, although we are "volunteers", cause we have to pay for the hosting so the Joomla you knew is not gonna be free anymore....
concerning what u say there about that "the majority of VM users do not need" (the downloads), well, it is also something very hard to find at a good mature state on a Joomla extension. you speak with audacity, not only you though, and stop preaching about what one should do in a business or an investment. but to become and have such an attitude yourself, you must have heard many times the word "please" in your online life so far. Something that people must learn and stop saying just to everyone around.
This is how projects fall apart though. .. and at the end WE are the ones that would care more about it cause we loved it. I am 100% against fascist mentality.
Quote from: Milbo on March 02, 2012, 16:58:31 PM
???
Rolling spider, I think you do not understand the possibilities already there. You can use joomla plugins for this already.
Really, really, what I really hate are people using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man arguments. I think you know 5% of vm2, but you think you can judge about it? I know we are missing this or that. We cant have 700 extensions (which also often not for free) like vm1.1 or other shopping carts already long time out there. But saying that we miss things which are quite obviously already there is just lame.
As I explained before. Dont mix "downloadable files" with "virtual goods", which can be shipped via download. Downloadable files already work. An example is in our store, there are now pdf manuals to download.
cool Mr and relax cause you are not the only one to be angry in this story with what has ALREADY happened to virtuemart.
...ahm... how to say.... answer "professionally" ..get me ? :)
bye bye... virtuemart is dead for me and many others already.
Quote from: orasis on March 12, 2012, 08:26:29 AM
bye bye... virtuemart is dead for me and many others already.
The developers of VM2 did build a great new system which is much better prepared for the future of online selling than the old VM1 version. It has become a full time job for them and of course they need to establish a business model to generate a reasonable income for themself. They supply most of VM2 free of charge to you guys so you can use it to generate income for yourself. Now some of you guys complain that you have to invest a small amount for a particular part you want to use to generate income for yourself . You don't intend to give all your downloadable products for free, because you somehow need to pay your monthly bills. But at the same time you are not accepting the similar business model of the VM2 team.
If you decide you have to abandon VM2 because your business requires a 35 Euro investment that (depending on what you sell) might be paid off after your 1st or 10th sale, then go ahead. VM2 can't please 100 percent of it's potential users.
Contrary to what you think, the number of VM2 shop owners is growing rapidly and the VM2 community, too - even if you decide to leave. :)
Quote from: jjk on March 12, 2012, 11:31:44 AM
Quote from: orasis on March 12, 2012, 08:26:29 AM
bye bye... virtuemart is dead for me and many others already.
The developers of VM2 did build a great new system which is much better prepared for the future of online selling than the old VM1 version. It has become a full time job for them and of course they need to establish a business model to generate a reasonable income for themself. They supply most of VM2 free of charge to you guys so you can use it to generate income for yourself. Now some of you guys complain that you have to invest a small amount for a particular part you want to use to generate income for yourself . You don't intend to give all your downloadable products for free, because you somehow need to pay your monthly bills. But at the same time you are not accepting the similar business model of the VM2 team.
If you decide you have to abandon VM2 because your business requires a 35 Euro investment that (depending on what you sell) might be paid off after your 1st or 10th sale, then go ahead. VM2 can't please 100 percent of it's potential users. Contrary to what you think, the number of VM2 shop owners is growing rapidly and the VM2 community, too - even if you decide to leave. :)
The vm community used to be a real community where one would ask something and 5 would answer and help. Nowadays this doesn't exist, most questions don't get answered even on serious subjects such as vulnerability notices from users. There is a general "attitude" in the air admit it or not, I personally don't really care if you do. It is obvious you've had enough.
Remind to yourself what FOSS is all about by going around some websites you maybe used to in the past and see what magic it can do to poor countries. If one is rich, he/she will not look for something that is free you know that. So, go completely commercial and admit it professionally without excuses and childish style sentences. Just remember, that horses, do eat hay, but some of us don't.
Most of what I personally hate and cannot stand is this atittude of your's telling us what to do and what we are already doing and how much money we make, and what ammount of sales we need, to earn back a certain amount of money. What we can not impose one another is "choice". And according to your choices be prepared to accept criticism.
Quote from: jenkinhill on March 01, 2012, 15:11:56 PM
The extension was written by Electrocity, one of the core VirtueMart developers.
It is on the official VirtueMart Extensions site. http://virtuemart.cloudaccess.net/extensions-virtuemart-2/shipments/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail
This clears up a lot about the "new" version of Virtuemart. Instead of making it truly better it appears as if it was gutted to make it easier for commercial plugin developers (i.e. the core Virtuemart developers) to make some cash.
While I have no problem with developers selling plugins, removing existing features only to make people pay for them is truly rotten.
What is going to be removed in the next version and turned into a paid plugin? The Shopping cart? Categories?
Ever buy a printer? nice investment...great low price...then they kill you with ink prices. I have seen this trend not just in VM but Joomla as a whole over the years. More and more extensions being developed by third party or core developer for some fee. Consider the developers time and effort to learn php, html, css, college...on and on. Simple fact is people don't donate, I don't. Even if the extension has some backlink to the provider I deal with it or try to remove it cause from an seo perspective hurts my rankings. But, if there is an extension that ties the main purpose of my site and I have no other choice I buy it. I have paid upwards of $100 for one.
However, there could be a demo easily set up or a trial period implemented. Developer, at 35 euro (say $46 us) you will easily get a handsome R.O.I. which is great for both of us. I sell a virtual product but found a way around this limitation that works for me.
Also the purchase of the extension is tax deductible!
Rock on VM and developers, you deserve to make a profit on your time and effort to provide for free what the majority of your users need. I'm certain most of them have had to pay for a viable solution as well.
teksun,
I fully understand that most people do not donate but I do. As for paid plugins, in general I found them to be just as buggy, if not more so than free ones. Often you are asked to pay once for plugin with the promise of support only to find yourself in a forum with other users trying to solve the same problem and the developer(s) are no where to be found. Or they say that will be fixed on the next version, which by the way you will have to pay for again.
I get it, the VM guys want to make some cash as they should. But is it "fair" to rip out previously free features with a "new" version only to charge people to get them back in? Again, my fear is if I bite the bullet and move forward with VM 2, them what will they strip out on the next "upgrade"?
Quote from: daviator on March 14, 2012, 13:42:27 PM
Again, my fear is if I bite the bullet and move forward with VM 2, them what will they strip out on the next "upgrade"?
Remember Coca-Cola? or New Coke? then Both? Then the dumping of New Coke?
A little off base but you can't live life with this kind of fear. I know what you mean about "buggy" too not to mention the possibility of opening the door for hackers. Adjust and move on. Better yet drop your website development, go learn php, html, css, javascript, mysql... and make your own solution. Once you see it from their side you will probably need so sell your solution to make up for loss of income from your own website.
Free enterprise is wonderful. It gives the core developers the opportunity to define and re-define what core is for their business model.
Look at it this way, ever have a hamburger? Add cheese for .50 cents. No cheese but cut the onions, same price as the core (hamburger), which I feel is wrong because I don't want onions so I should pay less than what the core price is. However, the maker of the core (hamburger) has set the price of the core to include tomatoes, lettuce, onions, and pickles. If I don't want to pay for cheese there is a solution... I bring my own. The down side is I still had to pay for the cheese just at a reduced cost by removing their "labor charge" for slapping on a piece of cheese. If I had the time and money I would make a hamburger joint that charged for each individual ingredient of the burger.
My point is at least the price of the core (VM) is not changed but the definition of it is redefined. I'm not happy about it but as I see it I have two choices. Don't use cheese or bring my own. I scrape the onions off and give them to my wife cause she loves 'em, after all I'm payin' for 'em anyway.
Quote from: teksun on March 14, 2012, 15:22:37 PM
Quote from: daviator on March 14, 2012, 13:42:27 PM
Again, my fear is if I bite the bullet and move forward with VM 2, them what will they strip out on the next "upgrade"?
Remember Coca-Cola? or New Coke? then Both? Then the dumping of New Coke?
A little off base but you can't live life with this kind of fear. I know what you mean about "buggy" too not to mention the possibility of opening the door for hackers. Adjust and move on. Better yet drop your website development, go learn php, html, css, javascript, mysql... and make your own solution. Once you see it from their side you will probably need so sell your solution to make up for loss of income from your own website.
Free enterprise is wonderful. It gives the core developers the opportunity to define and re-define what core is for their business model.
Look at it this way, ever have a hamburger? Add cheese for .50 cents. No cheese but cut the onions, same price as the core (hamburger), which I feel is wrong because I don't want onions so I should pay less than what the core price is. However, the maker of the core (hamburger) has set the price of the core to include tomatoes, lettuce, onions, and pickles. If I don't want to pay for cheese there is a solution... I bring my own. The down side is I still had to pay for the cheese just at a reduced cost by removing their "labor charge" for slapping on a piece of cheese. If I had the time and money I would make a hamburger joint that charged for each individual ingredient of the burger.
My point is at least the price of the core (VM) is not changed but the definition of it is redefined. I'm not happy about it but as I see it I have two choices. Don't use cheese or bring my own. I scrape the onions off and give them to my wife cause she loves 'em, after all I'm payin' for 'em anyway.
You seam locked and you now forget very simple things.
You used "hamburger" in your example, I will use a Greek saying, with Oranges.. you know oranges ? ok here you go:
Greek Original:
Υπάρχουν κι αλλού πορτοκαλιές που κάνουν πορτοκάλια.
English Translation:
There are also other orange trees, making oranges too.
OK so I think here are enough opinions to taking out the downloadables from the VM core.
I hope the developers are still reading here again. Because I like to know if it is possible to do the following with the new component:
My software I like to sell can be downloaded as a demoversion. After paying with various payment systems I like to send my customer a serial-number on mail so that he get the complete-version.
The serial-number is individual and I don´t like to put it on my webserver.
So is this possible to handle? After paying, sending the serial-number??
I will be happy for an answer.
Regards.
Quote from: teksun on March 14, 2012, 15:22:37 PM
(snipped)
My point is at least the price of the core (VM) is not changed but the definition of it is redefined. I'm not happy about it but as I see it I have two choices. Don't use cheese or bring my own. I scrape the onions off and give them to my wife cause she loves 'em, after all I'm payin' for 'em anyway.
Hi teksum,
First of al,l please do not take my comments as trying to argue with you as this is not my intent.
The last version I tried of VM was 1.9 and it had the downloadable (and salable) products as part of its core. I get it. You have to pay extra for the "goodies". Fair enough. But to use your analogy what if your "core" cheeseburger always came with the bun, burger and onions? So the next time you order one it doesn't come with the onions and now you are told that the "new version" no longer comes with the onions.
It's the now missing "onions" is what annoys me. I'm not asking for anything that wasn't included in the previous version. I chose the "core" VM as my platform of choice because the version I originally tested had the features I initially needed in it's core. I was and am willing to pay for the items not included.
And yes I know the core is free and many spent a lot of time and effort in to creating it and I am very grateful for that. I too have provided much of my time, knowledge resources and even source code over the web to the flight simulator community so I really do get it. It's just the way this was done is what gives the open source community a negative image.
It would have been less annoying had VM simply just gone 100% commercial.
Be glad that this topic is still alive and not locked or even deleted, because the new
fascist mentality caused 2, same replies of mine to be deleted and locked on this: http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=99572.0#quickreply
the topic has huge relation to this one here. my answer was the following (also check attachment):
Quote from: nordmograph link=topic=99572.msg328912#msg328912
Hello
In http://virtuemart.net/news/list-all-news/414-virtuemart-202-is-out
New feature list mentions: Media handles downloadables files (free download) and also files for sales
I agree. The last part saying: ".. and also files for sales" is NOT a new feature of VM2 once it does not exist in the VM2 core. See: http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=98277.0
the answer after deletion the 2nd time was:
nordmograph is one of our 3rd party developers asking for support - not for your opinion.This is fascism. No freedom of speech. This is the only forum in my internet life since 1996 that this has happened.
[attachment cleanup by admin]
Quote from: daviator on March 14, 2012, 21:17:06 PM
The last version I tried of VM was 1.9 and it had the downloadable (and salable) products as part of its core.
This is not true, it was never in the core of vm1.5 or higher.
VM2 has now a lot more features than vm1. You just dont see them, work a bit with it. I think a function which is sending emails to every shopper of a certain product is a lot more important for ALL, then to sell files. We will certainly add this function for example.
and it is also not true, that people do not answer in the forum. I cant see this. Sometimes the people ask questions which are in the first 3 hits of google with their own topic terms. Or the people just dont know.
I do vm as fulltime job since more than a year now. It is impossible to live from the donations and advertisment. VM lives from the community and the 3rd party developers. The better the core for 3rd party developers, the more high quality extensions you will get. The more stuff you have already in the core, the slower it gets and harder to customize.
and btw, why vm died almost? Because and that is no joke, approximatly 200k people live directly from vm,.. they have a vm shop, they create shops, or they sell for it... or they are providers. But look here https://www.ohloh.net/p/virtuemart how many committs where in the year 2009? Did they people who made their money with it contribute or pay? No, they did not. So there was no steady development and this was very bad for 3rd party developers.
When you want to live from your store, in europe and lets say you want to earn 1000 euro a month, you do not understand that you pay for the base of your business for one time 30 €? that is just greedy.
Quote from: daviator on March 14, 2012, 21:17:06 PM
It's just the way this was done is what gives the open source community a negative image.
It would have been less annoying had VM simply just gone 100% commercial.
I'm really not trying to pick a fight, I'm just saying your definition of "open source" is flawed.
http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd
So what´s with my questions at post #31 ??
Can I please get an answer? ???
All Milbo said is true but the basic problems I see:
- Some features and structures was leave AS IS by compatibility, correct; This feature, files for sale(digital goods), not ... and this breaks the compatibility;
- No one simple option for this was offered to VM users, like was made for shipping and payment options; If I can add files as "for sale" why not handle them, with a very basic plugin system? So developers can do more elaborated plugins to extend these feature;
- The documentation for plugin development is not complete, without examples and some functions listed in wiki not exists or changed the name. I lived this during development of two plugins for brazilians.
Not a problem at all for developers that "lives the VirtueMart" but for store owners that administrate your own shops this is a BIG problem.
Imagine if the VM team had done the same with normal shipping and popular payment plugins... So, consider a simple plugin for digital goods.
This was not a feature that all users use but is a diferential feature. This is only my opinion.
Thanks
Quote from: Milbo on February 22, 2012, 17:52:30 PM
Here take a look on this one http://virtuemart.cloudaccess.net/extensions-virtuemart-2/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail written by the coreteam. It is not with all feature we all wish, but it does what it says.
Hi,
I'm new here, I am also disappointed :( that the downloadable products is not implemented in VM2.
I recommend joomla for several years, I expected the VM2 for my client who wants to sell downloadable documents.
I understand your position, and am willing to pay a plugin.
So, can you confirm that it work well?
I am to indeed very disappointed.
$46 for a function that was out of the box in the precedent version ( and I'm sorry sir, selling downloadable goods is far for being a minority of us! )
I feel betrayed, shitted on and that basically a racket.
I'm not cheap, I made donations more than once before, it's what I love about the open-source / GNU / sharing knowledge and all that jazz... I can give $ to the great projects I like and use.
Nothing is guaranteeing us that updates will be free in the future, I saw that happening more than one in the past why this one would be exception ? "ho but this is a major update, we have to charge for this one..." you never saw that before ..?
Really sad to see this great project going that way.
JP
Im not agree with you guys , there are a lot of VM users that need this essential features, I m written a lot of ebook (.pdf) and I was used to sell them in VM1.
We have a community of 35 members that are doing the same.
We are all using VM 1 for that.
So the question is : are you going to publish an official release of this plugin?
I m quite disapointed to see free feature that used to make the strenght of VM1 have been deleted in the VM2 released
You should warn us about this
Thank you
But Milbo have reason everyone using Virtuemart should contribute in a way, so why not agree and everyone could contribute and give 5 euros?
If 400 k people are using it that would be enough to keep this community alive
because personally I love too much VM and do not want this shop to desappear!
Sorry to bump this thread, I was just shocked today when a friend tell me today that virtuemart is no longer let you to sell digital goods on default installation.
Well I'm not a daily user of Virtuemart and I don't use virtuemart that often but I'm a long time virtuemart fan.
I knew virtuemart since along time ago and until yesterday if someone ask me suggestion for free ecommerce solution for Joomla I will always recommend Virtuemart, as I believe virtuemart is one of a mature joomla component where you can use it to sell ALL kind of things for free. But starting today I think I will ask them first "what kind of goods you want to sell"?
When you said that it's not a feature that majority virtuemart users need, why don't you just consider it as a "standard" feature for ecommerce solution, as OpenCart, PrestaShop developers did? Is that really that hard to implement such feature?
If the reason is you need a business model for virtuemart, why do think to remove this feature is really a good move for Virtuemart? IMO there are still alot of space for you to play rather than to withdraw this feature.
But I know you guys have spent alot of time and resource to work with virtuemart, and also you guys have a lot of bills need to pay so you deserve this all. It is your your right to decide the virtuemart roadmap.
Please take my reply for just an expression of my dissappointment, nothing more. Thanks
Unfortunately, things are not that good for websites with downloadable payable products with VM2.
I come in peace lol -
very interesting thread, and also in context of my big complaints with the shipping features being completely left out (compared via VM 1) to be fulfilled by 3rd party developers. I think this is a very simple solution: set expectations, and then meet them. I am currently at the tail end of a project (a 2.0) of a site that was running joomla 1.5 vm 1.xx and i (stupidly) figured that VM 2 would be bigger and better than before!!!! (echo echo echo).. and then i was shoved into the cold water and made to realize that since i was already neck deep in this project, and at the point of configuring shipping options, i have no choice but to be raped or gouged until it was over. Which has been my life for the last six months.
For example, i thought to myself... hmmm... where did the shipping go (this after investing a lot of time and resources in getting VM2 core up to speed with our site)... A little bit of research later i found that it is all now all held in the hands of 3rd party developers (eh hem.. mostly istraxx == virtuemart team) and that i would have to pay close to $200 for just emulating the previous shipping setup i had in VM 1.xx. That was a huge disappointment. Not to mention i am on this thread because we also sell downloadable products that i also have to dish more and more money out for. I have always supported the VM and Joomla efforts, and do not expect anyone to work for free. A man is worth his wages. But i do have a problem with underhandedness - there should be blatant warnings for VM2 developers to understand the new model. That to a developer, we should be able to understand that this project is no longer really open source, but half open source and half commercial. Which in context of the other Joomla options, i would have gone with a commercial product rather than dealing with this nightmare that is VM 2 (e.g. the core is great! but requires a /lot/ of work, studying, understanding and time to "upgrade" - which is a completely wrong word - from the previous version).
With commercial options i would get full, great support with all the functionality i needed already built in for one price. Which is actually lower (in some cases, much lower) than what i have in the end, paid for VM2. I wouldn't have to chase down a million different 3rd parties, read peer reviews, study some more, and then hope my educated decision pays off, only to realize i need to fix code myself (which i shouldn't have to for paid solutions) to make things work correctly due to bad support. I am a very experienced developer in many different languages, and can't even imagine the mountain of fear this thing would pose to a person/company with limited talent. In short, i understand everything the developers are saying, as well as the community. Rarely is one side 100% right and the other 100% wrong. The devil in this case, is hiding under the fact that the appearance of things, is greed driven. Though i hardly think that is the reality, but that is what it looks like.
I also feel for Max M.. I read through his code constantly and view him as a very intelligent and talented developer. It's sad that it has kind of come to this, as i believe the real problem exists in the fact that VM2 is really just straddling the fence of open source and commercial software. I love the idea of making the core more suited for 3rd party plugins, and that the previous version almost made it harder to expand functionality than VM2 did, but it at least lived up to the name. I think what is happening is that developers like me, that love(d) virtuemart, pushed upgrades for future projects, only to find out that i had to breach several new and uncomfortable discussions with the client to let them know they need to add another $300+ to the budget to simply get the cart back to it's original state (all while trying to convince them that the upgrade was a good business decision) and that me and my team are not complete morons because we (ignorantly) assumed VM2 would at the very least be equivalent to VM1. It has nothing to do with the money.. it has everything to do with the approach. To the client, they could care less about the code base. They do care about the fact this project has gone well over it's mark and and budget. It's not just buying and adding a 3rd party plugin.. it's my time (which is expensive) to configure, integrate, modify, regression test against everything and repeat for the duration of the project.
Go open source (at least provide stripped down basic options across the board allowing the person to upgrade if needed) or go commercial and straight up set the expectation that the person is going to pay $200 for a fully functional bad ass shopping cart that includes all plugins and support the person will most likely ever encounter. All the while, the developers can make a living, and everyone can operate off of very clear expectations.
Broken or unmanaged expectations always lead to disastrous endings. Especially to the VM audience.. contractors. Mostly small fish trying to grow in a world full of sharks. Badly communicated/handled expectations will guarantee a project will go down in flames. I have yet to be a part of one that hasn't.
I am bumping this topic and chiming in to say I'm shocked that core VM3 doesn't provide for selling downloadable products.
I'm just a low-tech bumpkin who was selling downloadble files using HikaShop, but decided to try the well-respected VM. I went ahead and purchased a VM template, and am now stuck with it and very unpleasantly surprised. Downloadable products is not an "option" for me, it is a necessity.
Honestly, it never occurred to me that VM would not have such a basic function, since HikaShop and most other, less well-established shopping carts do. As per the hamburger comparison. It's like someone offering you a "free" burger and then charging you for the bun.
Not only that, I'm looking at the 4 or 5 extensions available for VM3 for downloadable products, and none of them look that great. But since I've already bought the template and gotten it substantially up, I'm going to have to blindly gamble on one of them.
I'm surpised that someone felt it necessary to re-open this old thread.
As the VM lead developer stated in Feb 2012 "It is also clearly a feature which is not need by the majority of virtuemart users."
And that is the reason why it is excluded. During the early days of VM2 development none of those trying/testing the dev versions requested this feature, so it was not included. The VM file package package was already so big that many users on shared hosts were unable to install in the normal way. Most VM users sell real shipped products just as they did back then.
A major problem with the old VM1 file download system was a lack of flexibility and real security, both of which are addressed in some of the available plugins. If I needed to use a d/l plugin it would be this one: http://extensions.virtuemart.net/shipments/shipment-for-virtual-products-detail