Virtue Mart - the future of frustration

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

VM is good for many users, just make sure it can do what you need.
And if VM do not fill your gap also take a look at:

CRE-Loaded a proffesional fork of OSCommerce with a free version.

Didn´t know about OSC3, the king is back! God (and the community) bless the king!
I can´t wait to see intgration between OSC3 and Joomla! 1.5

Hey addison! do you know if drupal has something like Joomla has VM?
Or maybe an OSC WORKING bridge or intrgration?

Thanx a lot in advance.

[addison]

Drupal has its own E-commerce solution called Drupal E-commerce. Please visit http://drupal.org/project/Modules/category/104

E-Commerce is still in Alpha 6, but I took a look and it is promissing.

OS Commerce Road Map for 3 version still has some pending features. According to the information took from their forum, it will be ready for 2008.

If you have other solutions paid or not please share with me. What a shame I am in the postion to talk about other solution then VM. Sorry for that people.

[pixiepie]

Don't worry people who are bragging will never help, will never buy a commercial solution, will always complain. They think one can have everything on one solution and for free, which I call dreaming.

So here is a hint for the unhappy people among us  : before using one solution or another please check its features and see if they match your needs, if not then don't use it, but please quit complaining... VM is free stuff !!!

And this is the EASY & TYPICAL response that seems to run RAMPANT on this forum if anyone points out the STAGGERING lack of support or responses to questions on this forum.. I was even called IMPATIENT by Soeren because I posted a review of VirturMart on the Joomla site where I shared my experiences with VirtueMart.

Futhermore, I think most of us here were smart enough to check out the software before we used it.. So please don't make assumptions.. MY personal mistake with VirtueMart was assuming that this forum would provide support to the users of this solution.. For me, there were BASIC features that functioned funky from the gate for me, and simple questions on tweaking my cart required an ACT OF GOD to get answers.

Free or not I am pretty sure that NO ONE here expected that we would get little to NO support.. Most of us didn't find out that questions on this forum go routinely unanswered until we started working with VirtueMart. Had we known we might have approached our projects differently.. I know I will be thinking twice about my next project before jumping into VirtueMart again.. I also know that EVERY TIME I had an issue for which I saw MULTIPLE unanswered questions, I made SURE I posted my solutions when I found them so that others weren't left hanging..

I'll say what I have said before here.. Is support for open source realistic?? In my experience, the answer for me has been YES.. There are SHINING examples of open source solutions with GREAT community and developer support on their forums.. I'll give you some examples:
Joomla forum: This forum is LOADED with imensely helpful community member and forum leaders as well as senior forum members
phpBB forum: This is also FULL of helpful forum members and helpful forum leaders as well as senior forum members
Zen Cart forum: This forum has been EXTREMELY helpful, with a responsive community of forum members, forum leaders as well as senior forum members..

I personally have NO ILLUSIONS about what open source software IS or ISN'T.. So spare me the "it's free" speech..  I was just a little shocked that unlike other open source packages I've worked with successfully, that this one didn't have the same kind of community that I could be CONFIDENT I could find answers in if I needed them.. The PayPal error I recently resolved for my client has TONS of similar questions on this forum. Most have gone with NO RESPONSE, some with solutions that turn out not to work, and then NOTHING more.. The PayPal notify script isn't a NICE TO HAVE feature.. this is a KEY feature of VirtueMart.. I have never been left HANGING when I ask question sor seek answers like I have been using VirtueMart.

[Alejandro Kurczyn]

The PayPal error I recently resolved for my client has TONS of similar questions on this forum. Most have gone with NO RESPONSE, some with solutions that turn out not to work, and then NOTHING more.. The PayPal notify script isn't a NICE TO HAVE feature.. this is a KEY feature of VirtueMart.. I have never been left HANGING when I ask question sor seek answers like I have been using VirtueMart.

It might be too much to ask, but, can you please post the solution to the PayPal problem? perhaps it can help other users as well.

[RolandD]

2pixiepie
Just a question, what makes those forums you mentioned so much more helpful than the VM forum? Why are there more people helping there than here?

I have been around for some time now and I think the people helping out regularly can be counted on 1 hand. You cannot expect those people to be around all the time to be helping. As long as the balance between asking questions and providing answers is 90/10, the feeling on this forum will not change.

Also this forum has way too many boards if you ask me

2Yosu
The only thing I want to say is that your flooding of the forums annoyed me. Not that you had an affiliate post.

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

Ok, true.
Is this a...
Reason to ban me? Could be, maybe too hard.
Reason to tell me to stop? Yes, of course. Sorry I whas promoting a good idea where it seemes it could get supprt.
A Thread with 11 participants, losts of reply and more than 500 views deleted because of some "well placed" spam of one the participants? NOT AT ALL.

This whas just the frustration of a tired person (seroen) unable to deal with it´s own grown up child (VM).
Or maybe there are hidden interests undercover this small actions here and there over time?
Just cutting the wings of people that don´t think exactly as he do.

[pixiepie]

It might be too much to ask, but, can you please post the solution to the PayPal problem? perhaps it can help other users as well.

I don't mind at all! I already posted back to the forum what I tried and seems to be working for me.. I wanted to make sure that others at least got something that they could TRY..

I don't want to hijack this thread with what I did.. So I'll PM you.. (Anyone else who is interested can find my post by searching for "Error 506" or "possible fraud")

[pixiepie]

2pixiepie
Just a question, what makes those forums you mentioned so much more helpful than the VM forum? Why are there more people helping there than here?

I can't answer why there are more people there than on those other forums.. I can say that my experience on all of those forums was that I have NEVER had a question go unanswered, nor have I found the same questions being asked over and over with NO ONE addressing the question.. Does that mean EVERY question gets answered.. No.. of course not.. but I see more of the 90/10 ratio you speak of on those forums than I have ever seen here..

I have been around for some time now and I think the people helping out regularly can be counted on 1 hand. You cannot expect those people to be around all the time to be helping. As long as the balance between asking questions and providing answers is 90/10, the feeling on this forum will not change.

Like I said.. I have no illusions about what open source is or isn't.. I understand VERY well the nature of open source and support forums.. This isn't Microsoft.. SOmeone isn't manning the 24 help line.. I KNOW that.. HOWEVER.. how do you explain the STAGGERING number of REPEAT questions asked here on this forum that go ROUTUINELY unanswered.. Also I am NOT the first person to make this observation.. We can't ALL be seeing things.. This is a REAL OCCURRENCE here.. I can't understand why every time the notion that support here is lacking is put forward, the common responses are denial, indictments and accusations, or my personal favorite, the "why don't you help code" response. (not speaking of you specifically.. this is just a general observation)

When I first came to this forum I was looking for answers to what should have been SIMPLE things for vets to address. I found that in searching for answers that MANY people had asked the same question I was now asking, and almost all of those posts had NO RESPONSES or solutions posted.. So I did a LOT of my own searching/testing for answers to my questions.. I was astounded that some of the answers were so darn simple. I couldn't believe that folks who probably knew the answer would not just POST the answer and save me the HOURS I spent to find what tuned out to be a SIMPLE answer... and it's not just simple things.. Error message questions go unanswered too.. This does not instill confidence in a product..

So while I may not be able to whip out php code, I help the best way I can.. I post back my findings/solutions when I find an answer to a frequently posted, and never answered question.. This way another site manager doesn't have to go through what I went through to solve the same issue..

Also this forum has way too many boards if you ask me

I agree.. It might be part of the issue with support.. It may be too much for a small group of mods to handle moderating a forum of this size..

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

Just a question, what makes those forums you mentioned so much more helpful than the VM forum? Why are there more people helping there than here?

It is very simple, you help me, I help you (the forum)
I post a problem, no one sayin nothing, I don´t come back, not to post more unheared problems, not to solve other´s problems.
This may not be an instant rule, but it works over time.
The game in this forums has not been to solve problems, but to kick out baloons, these are the results.

Why did this happen?, well, while Soeren is personally posing and watching the "developers threads", no one is taking care of newbies.
Results: a good aplication with a poor support. and hundreds of possible new users going away to other solutions.

[El Fanjo]

To my dear friend pixiepie :

And this is the EASY & TYPICAL response that seems to run RAMPANT on this forum

What is easier complaining even thought it is useless or answering people posts when you can, by submitting bugs Don't tell me that you can't install 1.1 and test it, submit bugs when you find them. Did you do it ? my guess is NO. YOU are easy and typical, face it.

Futhermore, I think most of us here were smart enough to check out the software before we used it.. So please don't make assumptions..

Fair enough, then you should have known what was working and what wasn't don't you? Why are you complaining now ?

Free or not I am pretty sure that NO ONE here expected that we would get little to NO support.. Most of us didn't find out that questions on this forum go routinely unanswered until we started working with VirtueMart.

There is a difference between unanswered and answered on another post questions. I have found all the answers I needed so far, and I have to say some of them where VERY specific. Am I lucky ? or Am I doing research before complaining ? FYI I have never posted any questions on the forum (that I remember of), the answers are all there somewhere...

Once again I can understand your frustration but you are not helping here. If you don't like virtuemart and like you are suggesting there are plenty of better solutions out there then what are you still doing here ? Enjoying yourself complaining ? Wanting to be reassured ? No one here have time for that sorry.

[pixiepie]

To my dear friend pixiepie :
What is easier complaining even thought it is useless or answering people posts when you can, by submitting bugs Don't tell me that you can't install 1.1 and test it, submit bugs when you find them. Did you do it ? my guess is NO. YOU are easy and typical, face it.

And again you are ASSuming things sir.. (and not reading this whole post either) as I have ALREADY stated (in this thread) I post back my findings when I figure out an answer to one of the MANY unanswered questions I see on this forum. I do this so that the next person doesn't have to spend their time searching for answers that ARE NOT here or spend the time I took to find the answer..

However IMO, forum member's participation does not EXCUSE the project leaders from this responsibility.. Part of developing a package means SUPPORTING it.. An FAQ would be a GREAT start.. The VirtueMart documentation is virtually non-existent. IMO a good set of user docs and and FAQ would go a LONG way to address HALF the questions that are posted here..

You GUESS that I'm not testing 1.1?? Based on what?? Before you ASSume (and post accusations) about what my level of participation has been or what it is you ASSume I am doing, you should really do some RESEARCH before you respond.. (after all.. ALL the answers are here )

Fair enough, then you should have known what was working and what wasn't don't you? Why are you complaining now ?

Really?? And tell me HOW we were supposed to know that??  I've never known a software package to list all the features that DON'T work so you know what you are getting.. But my bad.. Perhaps VirtueMart is different.. Perhaps they actually do list the non-working features, and I missed this when I was doing my research.. Do be so kind as to tell us where we might find this list of non-working features..

There is a difference between unanswered and answered on another post questions. I have found all the answers I needed so far, and I have to say some of them where VERY specific. Am I lucky ? or Am I doing research before complaining ? FYI I have never posted any questions on the forum (that I remember of), the answers are all there somewhere...

Well good for you.. and you would be among a VERY lucky few.. I have posted FEW questions on this forum. I have done LOTS of research to get answers to my questions only to find that most of the time I found other people asking the SAME question, but NO answers to the SAME question.. So as I have ALREADY STATED I ended up finding most of my own answers.. (outside this forum usually) When I found my answers, I would post my results back to this forum to as many of those REPEAT questions I could find so that that the next person would at least get an answer..

Once again I can understand your frustration but you are not helping here. If you don't like virtuemart and like you are suggesting there are plenty of better solutions out there then what are you still doing here ? Enjoying yourself complaining ? Wanting to be reassured ? No one here have time for that sorry.

Read again sir.. I neither NEED or WANT yours or ANYONE's reassurance.. I will continue to voice MY OPINION about what I have observed on this forum. You can disagree and name call all you want, but it doesn't change my opinion. I hope that eventually the forum leaders make some changes for the better.. Something they can't do if no one tells them that SOMETHING IS WRONG..

BTW, when did I ONCE say that I did not like VirtueMart??? What I have ACTUALLY said is that I don't like the LACK OF SUPPORT I have found on this forum and that sir has ALL you have heard me say.. and YES I know of a variety of other e-commerce solutions.. SO WHAT?? One web solution does not fit all clients.. For some of my clients ZenCart is all they need, and for some clients Joomla with an e-commerce component makes better sense.. Am I hestiant to use VirtueMart again?? Absolutely!! The problems I had with my one VirtueMart site gave me GOOD reasons to be cautious before venturing into another VirtueMart site.. and RIGHTFULLY so..

Now you don't have to agree with that, and that's okay if you don't.. I have to do what I think is best for my clients, and that includes providing them a solution where I am confident that I can resolve or get resolution to any problems they run across..

[El Fanjo]

Fair enough m8, so... to make it short...

I will continue to voice MY OPINION about what I have observed on this forum. You can disagree and name call all you want, but it doesn't change my opinion. I hope that eventually the forum leaders make some changes for the better.. Something they can't do if no one tells them that SOMETHING IS WRONG..

The only thing I am assuming is that your opinion is known by everyone already... thanks for the scoop...and still doesn't help or make things more constructive for all of us.

However IMO, forum member's participation does not EXCUSE the project leaders from this responsibility.. Part of developing a package means SUPPORTING it..

Supporting an unfinished product... why not... but I would rather see VM 1.1  stable first, I prefer the dev team to focus on this for the moment. What do you think of that ?

An FAQ would be a GREAT start.. The VirtueMart documentation is virtually non-existent. IMO a good set of user docs and and FAQ would go a LONG way to address HALF the questions that are posted here..

Fine, when do you start ?

Please note that when you post a question on the forum maybe, sometimes, no one has a clue or knows the answer. Whatever you say won't solve the problem.

If you want great support with no bugs and all the features you can dream of then pay for a commercial e-shop, but my guess is it won't make you happy either...

Be constructive

[pixiepie]

Fair enough m8, so... to make it short...

The only thing I am assuming is that your opinion is known by everyone already... thanks for the scoop...and still doesn't help or make things more constructive for all of us.

and you sir are entitled to your opinion.. However, you assumed WAY more than that in your previous post..

You don't think that pointing out a problem is constructive?? I don't agree with this approach.. How else do you resolve a problem if you don't IDENTIFY it.. The issue for you is that you don't think there is a problem here.. That's fine.. You are certainly entitled to YOUR opinion.. I happen to disagree.. That's the beginning and the end of it..

Supporting an unfinished product... why not... but I would rather see VM 1.1  stable first, I prefer the dev team to focus on this for the moment. What do you think of that ?

Clearly in the last year, the VirtueMart team efforts have been split between development of 1.0.x and 1.1. So it doesn't look like that's what the team is doing, and if they did make that decision then so be it..

However, to address your hypothetical question.. I think that IF the VirtueMart team has decided to focus it's efforts ONLY on development and stabalizing 1.1, they should inform the community. IF this is what the VirtueMart team decides to do, then the community should be informed. This way they will know that they can expect NO SUPPORT for VirtueMart 1.0.x because the team is focused on 1.1 dev. After all, we now know (if you've been keeping up with the announcements) that the 1.1 development is now going to focus solely on compatibility with Joomla 1.5.. The team responsibly informed the community so that folks know that if they plan to upgrade to VirtueMart 1.1, they must also upgrade to Joomla 1.5..

Fine, when do you start ?

Many have posted here that the documentation is inadequate.. Should we all volunteer to write a document because we NOTICED it and pointed it out?? Should we just say nothing and let the development team think that the documentation is OKAY?? Again, pointing out an issue is how you get things resolved.. Your response is typical of what I see here.. If anyone points out an issue we are dismissed because we are not writing code or documents.. I submit that this kind of response is not constructive...

Please note that when you post a question on the forum maybe, sometimes, no one has a clue or knows the answer. Whatever you say won't solve the problem.

Thanks for pointing out the OBVIOUS.. However, I am not speaking of questions for which NO ONE has the answer.. I am talking about issues I see posted for which there are easy answers, and NONE are given.. Simple questions like how to not round off your pricing, or how to set the product browse pages in the product setup and admin so that the layout appears correctly.. or even the darn PayPal notification script.. I'm talking about post after post of questions regarding poorly working BASIC features.. 80% of the problems I had and searched for was greeted with pages of similar questions already posted by other members.. Most of of these posts went unanswered..

If you want great support with no bugs and all the features you can dream of then pay for a commercial e-shop, but my guess is it won't make you happy either...Be constructive

and there you go GUESSING again.. You ASSume way too much here.. AS I'VE ALREADY STATED IN THIS THREAD, I am WELL AWARE of what the risks are with open source software.. So spare me the commercial software dismissal. If you consider my thoughts to not be constructive, cool.. You are entitled to your opinion.. I too am entitled to mine, and I will continue to express that SAME opinion without calling names or making ASSumptions about those who do not agree with me.. I will continue to campaign for great support here because I know it is possible -- even with open source software.. If you are happy with the support here AS IS, then good for you.. I just don't happen to agree..

[El Fanjo]

OMG you still don't get it do you ??

1. EVERYONE is aware of YOUR "opinion", absolutely everyone. So you can point out as long as you want IT WONT CHANGE A DAMN THING !!!!

2. Instead of ruining your keyboard pointing out, my friend, once again, you should start asking yourself how YOU can make this better. If you think building a community around a product is easy, if you think providing decent support while developping at the same timeis easy then fine... it's your opinion.

3. My opinion is that if it is that easy then you should make it happen pixiepie...if you don't then bear with the dev team because they are doing a great job and I think you should respect that. If the support is not up to your high standards then make it, or at least try, if you eventually fail I will still applause because at least you were trying.

If you can't understand these simple points there is nothing VM dev team or even VM community can do for you...

[Josué (Yosu) Cadilla Andrés]

Cmon,  you both have your point! This whas ( and can continue being) a very interesting thread with lot´s of different points of view of "what´s up in VirtueMart"

Why don´t you do your personal discussion in a private thread?

Thanx in advance... ;-)