VirtueMart Forum

Joomla 2.5 is outdated now.
My Joomla installation has VM 2.x installed.

What is the complete step by step order to upgrade Joomla to 3.x and VM to 3.x ??
Is there a workaround ?

Stay with Joomla 2.5

It is not outdated and unless you really need any of the "new" functionality in joomla 3, I would stick with Joomla 2.5

But if you want to take advantage of the new facilites offered by VM3 then this works on J2.5 as well. See  http://docs.virtuemart.net/tutorials/installation-migration-upgrade/198-upgrade-virtuemart-2-to-virtuemart-3.html

I'm in the same situation - I have a site with Joomla 2.5 and am going to a new site with Joomla 3. Also have Virtuemart 2.6.6 on old site. Should I update Joomla first then how do I convert my Virtuemart 2.6.6 to Virtuemart 3?

Did u search???  This has been answered sooooooooo many times on here!!!!!

Quote from: Hutson on February 12, 2015, 23:26:15 PM
Stay with Joomla 2.5

It is not outdated and unless you really need any of the "new" functionality in joomla 3, I would stick with Joomla 2.5

It´s not only a matter of features offered in Joomla V3 - it`s a matter of security.
Joomla 2.5 gets no security updates anymore.....

So you recommend to use a basic system without security patches ????

But VM2.5.27 does not suddenly become insecure. There are still so many users on VM2.5 that if there were to be a problem found then a patch would be forthcoming, in the same way that a patch was issued for J1.5 a long long time after it was declared EOL.  A lot of people got scared into updating to J3 after they installed J2.5.28 and saw a message in the security warning in the BE and advised to update ASAP. Strange that  the only significant change from J2.5.27 was the introduction by the devs of that warning plugin into the code.

I develop new sites on J3 as long as all the extensions the client requires are available for that version. Otherwise I use J2.5 and like my already existing J2.5 sites, I'll probably update at some time in the future, but certainly won't be rushing.  ATM J3.4 looks to be more stable than J3.3 which still has some problems.

QuoteSo you recommend to use a basic system without security patches ????

Yep - that is what I recommend at this current moment in time.

Plus don't install loads of components and plugins to make your site more secure and even easier to upgrade to joomla 3

Sorry guys but i think that this approach is like looking behind while the track goes too fast

J3 (especially 3.3 and then) has many advantages comparing to J2.5.
It is much more secure, much faster and has a series of new features.
Maybe some bugs come from time to time but that's normal even for much more tested versions

From my point of view all users should encouraged to use the J3 version.
This is good for joomla itself and the VM project as it can tested even further against these versions and adopt more practices from that.

Balai

QuoteFrom my point of view all users should encouraged to use the J3 version.

A developers view of the world?  If there is a sound business reason and the costs can be justified then maybe the economic buyers will move - but just because a new version exists does not automatically create such an imperative

QuoteMaybe some bugs come from time to time but that's normal even for much more tested versions

Hence why I use a mature tested and stable platform .

Much faster - show me the results that make it a must have!

A series of new features - try listing those that matter to a store owner!

QuoteThis is good for joomla itself and the VM project as it can tested even further against these versions and adopt more practices from that.

Most store owners do not wish to test out an immature platform - they want a robust platform that they can use to sell items

QuoteHence why I use a mature tested and stable platform

As a coder you possibly know that there is no application without bugs.
Have a look at magento or drupal to see how often they have security releases

As for the how much tested it is, the 1st stable version of Joomla 3 was released more than 2 years ago.
Also the unit testing of J 3 introduces a much more advanced way of testing comparing to the user testing of J2.5

If you need more than that to migrate to a new version there is always J1.5

QuoteMuch faster - show me the results that make it a must have!

This is a benchmarking of the j2.5 router vs the j3 router done back in 2012
https://gist.github.com/mbabker/5544011
1st the old, 2nd the new
You can see a 0.542 seconds difference and some KBs of memory.

New data refer more than 10% increase in site speed and 2.5 sec faster page loading
http://community.joomla.org/blogs/community/1821-its-amazing-how-easy-it-is-to-do-more-with-joomla-33.html

QuoteA series of new features - try listing those that matter to a store owner!

Let's start from Security:

1. Abolish of the md5 encryption (J2.5) for BCrypt (J3) which is much more secure, for the password storage
2. Two Factor authentication. A hacker has less than 30 sec even if he manages to intercept a system and steal credentials. Almost impossible task
3. PHP 5.3 and higher

Content display and management

1. Cloud Storage API
2. Microdata. A very usefull feature for an eshop
3. More types of databases
4. Tagging system
5. Content Version Control

Web Design and Uability

1. Native Bootstrap
2. JQuery over Mootools
3. Responsive backend
4. LESS

Others

Front-end module management
Unit-testing
Better search

I need 1 reason to continue using j2.5

Oh this is fun!

You keep quoting technical reasons that are not issues or imperatives to move.

no application without bugs.
But they are only bugs if they are a problem to your business/store operation and because joomla keeps being "improved" new ones keep getting introduced.

1. Abolish of the md5 encryption (J2.5) for BCrypt (J3) which is much more secure, for the password storage
But md5 is NOT insecure, so try selling this one to the users as a MUST have reason
2. Two Factor authentication. A hacker has less than 30 sec even if he manages to intercept a system and steal credentials. Almost impossible task
Yep for a store owner that does not use registration to slow down customer sale or lose them - this is a "real" loser.
Script kiddies will find alternative routes
3. PHP 5.3 and higher[/quote]
Since when did VM3 require anything less! (New minimum requirement for VirtueMart is php 5.3.10)

Router speed is maybe better
But stick a couple of sliders and large images on any product page and that renders these sort of tests pretty irrelevant


1. Cloud Storage API
Whoooa - I thought we were talking about a business imperative?
2. Microdata. A very usefull feature for an eshop
Agreed - but microdata for VM is NOT provided by joomla, your VM template needs to support it and as VM3 runs on both version of joomla the version is irrelevant
3. More types of databases
Seriously, this matters to your average store owner? I bet we all select lots of different databases when we install VM and move to a new one when we upgrade (hmm.....)
4. Tagging system
Modules are available and have been for ages to do this for all joomla versions
5. Content Version Control
LMAO

http://www.joomlashine.com/blog/6-highlight-features-of-joomla-3-3.html (http://www.joomlashine.com/blog/6-highlight-features-of-joomla-3-3.html)
This expands on the "must have" shop features

Quote
Web Design and Uability

1. Native Bootstrap
2. JQuery over Mootools
3. Responsive backend
4. LESS

Others

Front-end module management
Unit-testing
Better search

And still I see no significant business advantage to warrant a move and the upheaval it causes. When will coders learn that "just because you can, doesn't mean you should!"

QuoteI need 1 reason to continue using j2.5

1. If I already have my site bringing in good sales - I can keep focusing on my business (which after all is selling goods) And use the money saved on messing with the site to lower some prices and grab even more sales.
2. VM3 works well on it so I can upgrade VM if required.
3. The joomla team won't keep messing with it.
4. The VM team have said that they will provide (where possible) critical security fixes
5. I don't have to test my site every time joomla decides to update

Quote from: balai on February 23, 2015, 16:02:55 PM
I need 1 reason to continue using j2.5

As I so often hear from my clients. We have no budget for an upgrade at the moment. Incidentally that is why one of my oldest clients is still using J1.5 and very happy with it.

The economic buyer calls the shots and the economic buyer is, usually, not a techie.  (For a good reason!)

No MD5 is not secure at all according to it's inventor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5#Security
http://www.zdnet.com/article/md5-password-scrambler-no-longer-safe/

As for the 2 factor authentication, seems that you are not well informed that can be restricted to the backend.

So the argument is that higher security, better performance and several enhancements do not concern your client?
If he does not want to undertake the cost that's his decision.

QuoteSo the argument is that higher security, better performance and several enhancements do not concern your client?
If he does not want to undertake the cost that's his decision.

Well this, much reduced list of "must have new features" is far easier to manage.

You have wrongly assumed that I am a developer (tsk tsk) when, in fact, I am actually the client (and economic buyer!)

So let me give you my summary.

Quotehigher security

Good - you agree that Joomla 2.5 is not insecure

Quotebetter performance

This may be the only thing that might (not definitely) be worth it.

Quoteseveral enhancements

None of which are focused on improving my shopping cart, except maybe a responsive template (bootstrap), which I can already have in Joomla 2.5

Hopefully this discussion helps those thinking of moving from Joomla 2.5.28 to Joomla 3.x

I probably should have highlighted what benefits Joomla 3.x could bring over Joomla 2.5.28 but reading this thread may help others decide to jump or to wait.

As a result of reading and considering all this, I, for now, will stick with my first response:-

QuoteIt is not outdated and unless you really need any of the "new" functionality in joomla 3, I would stick with Joomla 2.5

It is NOT a "do not move" statement.

I point out what all economic buyers should do - Make sure that the technical guys can make a real business case for the change, considering thoroughly the business benefits and the risks.

;)

Just a tip that concerns the economic buyer.

You know how most of the hacking happens? By exploiting holes in other sites of the shared server
if someone with a bit of experience manages to steal your encrypted credentials, it is mattter of seconds to minutes to resolve them and have a full control of your site.
If this is not important what is finally?

Anyway i am stopping here. As said it's a good article for anyone thinking to upgrade to J3

Quote from: balai on February 20, 2015, 18:53:56 PM
It is much more secure, much faster and has a series of new features.

Maybe by the theory of unit testing. But not in reality. Please read for yourself the security issues for both version. You will see that either a security issue counts for both version or only j3. I never saw a security with j2.5 only, yet. It may differ with j3.4. http://developer.joomla.org/security.html

I rest my case  :)

just an observation on security..  J1.5 was last updated on 27 March 2012 except for the media patch thing - afaik it is secure - I have many clients still running it without problems

So nearly 3 years without a reported flaw.. perhaps because no one is "developing" it... ?    ;)

So the argument is no bug report=stability. Right?
Do you have any recent bug report from mambo or from virtuemart 1? I suppose no. Why don't you use them?
is there any recent data proving their security and stability? No.
The latest stable version gets the focus. Most bug report is not done by the average user but by users having some tech background. Tell me how many of the reported issues could be even understood by an average user?
So dont be so sure that an old version is as stable and secure as you may think. It is just a dead case. If a problem occurs with a dead version the answer Is always the same "upgrade". Not "report it".

QuoteAnyway i am stopping here.

Apparently not  :)

QuoteSo the argument is no bug report=stability. Right?

Yes that is exactly the point! If I have a piece of software that is no longer in "active" development and I am suffering no business issues - it IS stable.

There may be tons of bugs in it but, as I note earlier:-

QuoteThey are only bugs if they are a problem to my business/store operation

Your obvious technical leaning is clouding your argument.

QuoteWhen a problem occurs with a dead version the answer Is always the same "upgrade". Not "report it".

Dead version - So Joomla 2.5.28 is considered by you to be a dead version only months after the last update.

From the Joomla site  "End of Support for 3.x   No Earlier Than February 2017"

As a consequence (based on your statement above) Joomla 3 is "Dead" In March 2017.  If I launch today I get a max of 2 years - I cannot wait to see you justify this investment to any prospective "upgraders"  for 2 years of use - before they get hit again for upgrade fees to a version that has even less business improvements than the last weak featured version - but don't moan, because those Joomla developers are having real fun in their spare time.

In fact, I can see why users might be driven to "cart only" solutions if this continues.

QuoteSo don't be so sure that an old version is as stable and secure as you may think.

And don't be so sure that the current version of Joomla won't have issues - that they introduced when they tinkered and you overlooked.

Nobody said NEVER upgrade

The real test of stability and safety is what actually happens in real life.. I am not talking about reported vulnerabilities - I am discussing my real world experience of a large customer base with a mixture of J1.5, J2.5 & J3 sites

I nearly 3 years I effectively not had to touch a J1.5/VM1.1 site - this makes for happy clients

If only the same could be said for any that stupidly demanded e.g. a move to J1.6/VM2 - said to be the Holy Grail at the time .. wooooo

If I religiously updated to each new release and version I would have billed them for dozens of upgrades and building or sourcing of extensions and the client would rightly comment that as far as they are concerned the site looks the same as it was in 2010... 

The subject of this topic is Re: Joomla 2.5 outdated....  i.e. with the view of a real world end user asking WHY Joomla are pressuring them to upgrade by installing a plainly mis-leading plugin on a required update.

QuoteDo you have any recent bug report from mambo or from virtuemart 1? I suppose no. Why don't you use them?

This is not the discussion ..  since November I have completed many J3/VM3 sites and are perfectly happy with them - the question was why upgrade...

QuoteThe real test of stability and safety is what actually happens in real life.. I am not talking about reported vulnerabilities - I am discussing my real world experience of a large customer base with a mixture of J1.5, J2.5 & J3 sites

Keep in mind that you will not hacked/compromised by the average user. 
Most of the average users have never used a CMS again and you are trusting their judgement about how stable and secure is a system?
Ok i quit

QuoteOk i quit

That is a shame. You never managed to really get your arguments going - I am sure if you tried a bit harder you would make some sort of a case for upgrading immediately.

I will of course upgrade when the time is right.  2017 is looking good at the moment!

QuoteMost of the average users have never used a CMS again and you are trusting their judgement about how stable and secure is a system?

Nope - I'm trusting MY judgement on what is necessary and whether I want to build a reputation as a fly by night rip off web site manager milking the client till he gets tired of the constant billing and goes and finds another  - no doubt spreading the word about why he had to find another.

I do of course enter into a discussion with them on the advantages and dis-advantages of upgrading - normally when billing them for the latest update - so they can make an informed decision