Author Topic: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address  (Read 15314 times)

Milbo

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 12:59:26 pm »
No it is not poor design.

From the legal point, behind a vendor exists a juristic person. This person has contact information.

I wrote it for juristic person linda, not natural person. A company IS a juristic person, if you do not believe this ask your CEO.#

The design is for a normal shopowner very easy. He installs vm and the one who installs vm is the vendor with id=1.

What you do is a bit more complex. You install vm for your customer, because you are an agency. Then handle like a professional one and not amateurish. You have three possibilities.
1. Give your customer your admin account and everything is clear.
2. Create another Superadmin account for yourself.
Done

OR
1. Create a superadmin account for your customer and
2. use the tools to set him as mainvendor http://dev.virtuemart.net/projects/virtuemart/wiki/Tools
Done

OR
1. Create identity (user) for the company
2. Use the tools to set this mainvendor
2. Create an admin account for your shopowner
Done

In single vendor mode, everyone allowed to enter the BE, acts automatically as the mainvendor. So every superadmin can change the email of the mainvendor.

So I do really not understand your problem.

I think the real problem is that you do not understand that from juristic view point a vendor IS ALWAYS a person. Why we should create a new entity for this? Even the Shipment Addresses makes sense for vendors, they are then just the addresses of their storage.

So how it should be done else? Every other solution has a lot more inconsistencies. In vm1 you had to change the email address 3 times! One time in joomla, then for the user and for the shop. Yeh you like this more? Maybe you 5 people would be calm, but ten other would be angry, saying "hey why I have to change the email address 3 times, if I give the shop to my customer". We had another table for vendors before and I noticed a vendor has exactly the same data as a normal user. Checking the juristic point I found out that a vendor is exactly the same as a shopper, just with some extra information.

We bind all identities to the joomla login, because this is the informatic way to determine a identity (we call this procedure login, btw). So we just extend this identities. Be aware vm2 is multivendor (we use it that way). So your system must be also able to handle this.

It is just a matter of the view point and knowledge. If you know that the vendor is handled as user and if you know that you could handle it as own identity, what is left?

The system makes it possible that
1. shopowner login == identity of the store
2. shopowner login != identity of the store
3. Many admins can handle one store and act as this store
4. Mainvendor can act as store and vendors can act as employed subvendors
5. Mainvendor can act as store and vendors can act as vendors

Just for point 5 we need some extra stuff, like the multicart system. But this is another topic. Topic 1-4 work, you assume that the system must just feature topic 2. You do not know how to achieve it and say it is poorly designed.
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lindapowers

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 15:27:33 pm »
Hi Max you are right about the juristic person however what may confuse people is the fact that you have name and second name as obligatory fields in the vendor additional information.

What I mean in legal terms for us is that we can't put the name of a person there. Here the laws don't allow us to put the name of the company owner together with the name of the company.

So for the confirmation e-mails we use the fields "Name" and "Second Name" for the name of the company.

This is what we did in VM 1.x and is a solution with the small bug commented at my screenshots here: http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=110589.0

We can't get rid of the Mr or Mrs title, a part from that this is not a big issue.

What could be the 100% correct solution? don't make the fields name and second name obligatory there for the vendor thinking that some people would just want to choose the name of the company.

Regards

Milbo

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 17:58:56 pm »
Usually you set for the name the responsible CEO,

But what you mean in general is planned for vm2.1 and already started. The possibility to disable easier the userfields for vendor views and address.

I just told a normal shopowner about this here and he agreed that the solution is absolutly intuitiv for a normal shopowner who manage his own store. It is maybe not completly intuitiv for web agencies, but these are professional people and of course they must know more than a normal shopowner. We could turn the system, yes,.. make it easier for webagencies, but more complex for the doing yourself shopowner.

But we want design vm2 so that it is always prefering the view point of a normal shopowner. If he wants something complex, he must learn. In this case we prefer the view point of a webagency. not easy to draw a line. We also prefere the view point of the shopowner who uses vm2 and not the viewpoint of a shopowner learning vm2. This is nasty especially if the documentation is not completed. But on the long run, it is more important that people like to work with it, then to learn it.
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lindapowers

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 19:28:13 pm »
Hi Max great work is being done by you guys.

But I insist just so that you understand the situation here in Spain which ill put my hand on fire that is the same for other european countries:

In Germany you can put the name of the CEO in the confirmation order or invoice? I have no idea, but for us that sounds strange, is not usual, is not even legal thats what im trying to say.

You wont see a spanish invoice or order details from a serious company with the CEO name or any other persons name unless that person is a self employed and his name is actually the name of the company (what we call "autónomo").

We are a shop selling fruits, our CEO responsible name and details can't appear in the confirmation emails or invoice, not a single name can appear except and only the company details (not even the commercial shop name, the company official name and address asigned to it)

We will be in big trouble if we had an inspection and they saw a vendor name instead of the company details.

Actually our commercial name is "comenaranjas" but the company name is different and that is what it has to appear, even the addresses are different.

This is not a big issue in Virtuemart 2, we can pass over it as most spanish shops in VM do by putting the company details at the vendor details, I just wanted to explain it further so that you understand that in our case is not a matter of choosing a vendor to assign and manage VM but to understand that the vendor here as actually the company and the address of the vendor is the address officially inscribed, a limited society in our case.

Resuming, you could say that the vendor has to be the Billing information of the shop, therefore the bill is done by a company, not a physical or juristic person.

Regards

lindapowers

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 20:06:07 pm »
I make it even more complicated for you, I think this is a problem carried from an old one commented long time ago in the forum.

You have 2 type of customers initially for VM:

- a normal customer that buys a product and you bill to him

- a normal customer that buys a product and works for a company

The field "company" in Virtuemart doesn't refer to a company itself but to the company for what the user works for.

Now, what about the 3rd type of customer that is a company?

A company that doesn't need name or second name, just company details?

Did you ever though of that?

I guess all this problems comes from that.

Initially VM doesnt make a difference between a particular customer and a company.

In other e-commerce solutions at the register you will see register details for a customer and in a different tab, register details for a company where for example the name and second name are not obligatory fields and just the name of the company is entered and where you can add the CIF (EU VAT ID i think you call it)

Maybe something to look in the future.

Regards


Milbo

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 22:23:36 pm »
You do not really understand the juristic situation. The company IS the vendor. What you talk about all the time is that you dont want to display the forename and surename of the vendor, thats all, because it in your case it seem to be a capital company. But a lot people using vm are just merchants or freelancers. For them it is perfectly fitting. Usually a Company is something bigger, with more capital, and people than a normal merchant. Therefore you must adjust vm that way. In fact just a templating job.

and in germany we MUST give in the Impressum a responsible natural person. Usually the CEO or the manager of the page. So for me it is quite clear, you want something that maybe 10% of the users want, so we neglect it. A typical thing people must just buy, we cannot write it exactly fitting for everyone.

and that you are not allowed to enter a name, hmmm. Strange.
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lindapowers

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 22:40:49 pm »
First of all Max im not requesting ANYTHING.

I even said that is fine how it is.

I just explained you the situation for us, for us in Spain, not for us in our company and is not 10% is a whole country except the mentioned "autonomos" self employed people.

And yes as I mentioned is just a template issue, or an issue with fields which is easily solved. Actually the only issue is at the vendor tab where the name and second name have to be entered, and even with that we use them to put the company name so is NOT an issue and I do NOT request Virtuemart to de adapted to a particular issue.

I'm just explaining to you that there are other options in Europe and what seems strange in Germany is perfectly normal in Spain, and what seems normal in Germany is really strange for us. I know that quite well as half my family is german.

You know what happens if we include the name of the CEO here for our company, we end up in jail, that simple. 8)

Anyway interesting conversation.

Regards

Sydiom

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2013, 17:18:23 pm »
OK, I went to http://dev.virtuemart.net/projects/virtuemart/wiki/Tools and found this:

"Set store owner
Here you can set your storeowner, when you provide an id, then to the userId, in the other case for the user who is executing the command."

But that is all there is there. no more information besides a warning at the top of your page that you can trash your website if you are not careful.

I desperately need to change the store owner and I see that I can click on the radio button for Set Store Owner, but before I take this risk, I need a step by step instruction.

For example, when you select the "Set Store Owner" option, the only other action is "Start Migration". When do I set the userId for the new store owner? How do i do it etc.

More information would be appreciated.


Sydiom

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2013, 23:31:26 pm »
Frustrated!

I had a go at using the Tools to Set Store Owner.

Joomla 2.5.6 and VM 2.0.6:

  • I went to Users/User managersli]
    • Wrote down the ID of the registered person that should be the store owner.
    • Enabled database update tools in Virtuemart configuration
    • Went to Tools/Tools and Migration and select the Migration tab on the right
    • Selected "Set store owner"
    • filled in the ID of the registered person that should be the store owner.

    No effect at all. I did a test payment and the confirmation email still shows myself, the original person that registered with the website, as the store owner.

    Please! Someone. I have really tried to do this according to all the advice.

Milbo

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 00:30:34 am »
The easiest way is to use phpmyadmin. Just go to the virtuemart_vmusers table and set user_is_vendor = 1 and virtuemart_vendor_id = 1 for your client and for all others it must be 0. yeh we should enhance the tool (kind of search and blub).
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Sydiom

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 11:33:56 am »
Thank you Milbo.

Once I had gone through the process of changing the Store owner in phpmyadmin (thank you Jenkin Hill) it was still going not sending the email from the vendor.

A colleague pointed out that in the Global Configuration in Joomla, on teh Servers tab, the Mail Settings were still set to my original settings when I first registered.

Changing the name and email there FINALLY solved my problem.

One assumes that the email sent from a purchase would go from the vendor. Long hours of headaches solved.

And the solution in the title [shopemail=shopowner email] is not correct. The Global Configuration email under the Servers tab, Mail Settings is the shopowner email.

One learns as one goes (and gets a few grey hairs on the way!)

Milbo

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 23:56:47 pm »
lol you meant the general account. ahhhh. yes that is only joomla.

But the reply and things like this are changed to the used vendor
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Tirrawarra

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 02:28:54 am »
[NOT SOLVED]
This is not fixed and it might seem correct to the people who code it - but from a user point of view it IS broken.
From a marketing point of view it might be worth asking some of the regulars to explain why rather than defending it.
I've struggled for days with it sending me customer enquiries - instead of the store owner.
I used my account to 'test" - because I couldn't receive his email. Now I cant change it to send them to him.
(yes Ive tried DB, Joomla, VM)
VM1.1 only needed tweaking - not smashing with a hammer.
[NOT SOLVED]

Tirrawarra

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Re: [Solved;shopemail=shopowner email]Can't change shop email address
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 03:17:32 am »
okay I think I may have fixed one of my clients problems with advice from this forum - so thanks!! 
But it was not easy. The site went down - there were missing userids etc.... 

But most importantly... my clients could NEVER have done it.  They cant use PHPMYADMIN

This flips the whole paradigm on its head. (Its hard enough for us now) Virtuemart is now not a system that a techie type can setup - and leave for a store owner to run.

This is what I've been doing for years - and VM1.1 worked pretty well too - I normally only heard from store owner clients when they wanted more features - now its constant bug reports and fix requests that take hours, days, months with often no published fix.  Long live Virtuemart!

To me the main problem is the people who could assist don't have a listening for the problems. You don't have to believe me that there is a problem. But don't dismiss us immediately - maybe stand on our discussion and look out from there see if there's anything in it. Mull it over for a while.

kind regards!