No I can go as low as 7.. but I know not 5.. I have 70 sites iv'e upgraded in the past 6 months full rebuilds to J4.. last one is mine that uses VM.. and I'm dead in the water without the ability to edit orders.. but knowing what you said about J3.. I feel a little better. I got burnt staying with 2.5 and had 50% of them compromised 2 years ago. went to J3 on all of them.. again needed full rebuilds.. I just don't want that to happen again..